TechViews

RSI · #81 19th May 2008, 11:32 PM

A few weeks back Joe Ross was giving an example in his weekly news letter as to how a slight variation in software coding resulted in vastly different looking bars in the chart and how it prevented from executing trades. Same price was recorded as open price in the bar in his chart (Joe Ross chart) whereas the same price was recorded as closing price in the bar of his friends chart. This was possible because when the new bar opened in Joe's Chart, the same price was being recorded as closing price of the bar in friend's chart. Of course Joe was referring to 5 minute bars. This made vastly different interpretation. I will try to locate this article and if possible I will post it here.

karthikmarar · #82 20th May 2008, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeutralBlue

Hello Mr Iyer.

You can practically check the facts by writing a formula in your software, based on the VSA. beware it may be the trademark of the software maker, so dont name it as VSA.

Neutral

Neutral

First of all a clarification. VSA is not a trade mark and the software maker calls his software Trade guider. Many of the concepts of volume spread analysis is provided by Tom Williams in his book which is sold all over the world. Anybody using these concepts to make his own interpretation cannot be violating any trade mark especially when it non commercial.

As you know there are many schools of thought on trading strategies. Some believe that the very concept of Technical Analysis itself is a crap.

I would prefer not to trash any idea unless it is proven useless. Every concept or system has it’s own pros and cons. As you are aware there is no Holy Grail system or concept in trading.

I have nothing to do with TG and my intention is not to promote it or the concept of volume spread analysis. I have been experimenting with the concepts enumerated by Tom Williams in his book and I do find some of them quite interesting.

Instead of going into details I will let a chart speak for itself. Please note my experiments on volume spread analysis is no where near complete…. Still plodding on…

karthikmarar · #83 20th May 2008, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenneth

Hi Karthik

RNRL has shown divergence on 16/05/2008
By viewing your charts could you please give your comments
Thanks & Regards
ken

Ken

Did you mean divergence in volume. IT is showing divergence in volume. The last bar is a narrow spread bar with low volume shows no demand. This shows the smart money is not intertesting in the stock yet.

In fact the stock made a lower high and so 120 becomes crucial now. On the down side it shouls hold 94...else we would see 50s soon.

The stock is curently weak.

Enclosing a chart. Also enclosing Hindalco chart.

regards

Karthik

NeutralBlue · #84 20th May 2008, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSI

Here I remember a radical suggestion given by another veteran. It took me very long time to grasp this aspect. He says we must view price and volume as continuous flow. In our context it starts from 9.55 A. M. and closes at 3.30 P. M. The bar interval is only a trick played by software. Market does not bother whether 5 minute and/or 15 minute/60 minute bar is closed or not. He says, unless all trading activity comes to absolute close and unless everyone goes home there is no point in looking at bar. We must view the price and volume as a continuos flow until then. This view indeed makes lot of sense. I think this answers defect no. 1 mentioned by you. Yes I agree. There is too much bragging about big players trying to mislead small guys like us in VSA. But the point which VSA tries to highlight is the effect of volume on price and the spread.

Thoughts are much similar to mine. the defect of bar spread increases particularly with volume analysis because v is a different dimension than price & does not necessarily show effect on the same bar.

Regards

RSI · #85 20th May 2008, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeutralBlue

Thoughts are much similar to mine. the defect of bar spread increases particularly with volume analysis because v is a different dimension than price & does not necessarily show effect on the same bar.

Regards

But let me remind you that looking the price and volume as a continuous flow and interpreting them in that fashion requires and demands lot of skill and experience. Volume does show its effect on price. This will become more and more clear only when you interpret them as a continuous flow as I mentioned before. What you are intending to say (that is what I guess from reading your post) is that sometimes half of the volume may be in one bar and the remaining half may be in the next bar and this trick in data may lead to wrong interpretation of the market. But my question is how many of us can read the market as a continuous flow? I find it extremely challenging. Firstly, this requires reexamination of whatever we have learned so far. Secondly there is lot of noise in the market. Price does tend to move far beyond than what we "think" "reasonable price" due to noise. Thirdly when we started learning trading all most all of us used to be the slaves of "indicators". It requires lot of guts, experience and knowledge to reject them in trading firmly and forever. This is not at all easy. It is not so easy to giveup old habits.

NeutralBlue · #86 20th May 2008, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karthikmarar

Neutral

First of all a clarification. VSA is not a trade mark and the software maker calls his software Trade guider. Many of the concepts of volume spread analysis is provided by Tom Williams in his book which is sold all over the world. Anybody using these concepts to make his own interpretation cannot be violating any trade mark especially when it non commercial.

TradeGuider, VSA and Volume Spread Analysis are trademarks of TradeGuider Systems Ltd.
http://www.tradeguider.com/downloads/qcollector.pdf
Read Page No.4 Line No. 1

Quote:

Originally Posted by karthikmarar

As you know there are many schools of thought on trading strategies. Some believe that the very concept of Technical Analysis itself is a crap.

I would prefer not to trash any idea unless it is proven useless. Every concept or system has it’s own pros and cons. As you are aware there is no Holy Grail system or concept in trading.

I have nothing to do with TG and my intention is not to promote it or the concept of volume spread analysis. I have been experimenting with the concepts enumerated by Tom Williams in his book and I do find some of them quite interesting.

Instead of going into details I will let a chart speak for itself. Please note my experiments on volume spread analysis is no where near complete…. Still plodding on…

Hello karthik,

VSA is an extension to any basic knowledge on v. & the aim is not to scrap it down. my post was just to alert you about some basic defects in it.
There is a high possibility that, being a black box (specially volume thermometer) the software is based upon better calculations than mentioned in the book.

please carry on with your experiments.

regards
Neutral

RSI · #87 20th May 2008, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeutralBlue

RSI,
Volume is my primary tool of trading & have my set of tools to interpret what its saying.
This is just to make myself clear that, what I am writing is experienced by me daily.

Wrote in this thread as its my favorite subject infact the only subject I have knowledge.
I dont know anything about macd, rsi, roc, ma s,ad, trendlines etc.

I have one suggestion (or treat it as a request from me) to you, only if you do not mind doing so. Why can't you post at least for a few days (may be in a seperate thread) how you see and interpret volume. Even after the facts charts will do. You need not post software codes here.
Thanks in advance and regards
R. S. Iyer

NeutralBlue · #88 20th May 2008, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSI

But let me remind you that looking the price and volume as a continuous flow and interpreting them in that fashion requires and demands lot of skill and experience. Volume does show its effect on price. This will become more and more clear only when you interpret them as a continuous flow as I mentioned before.

right & there are ways for the interpretation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSI

What you are intending to say (that is what I guess from reading your post) is that sometimes half of the volume may be in one bar and the remaining half may be in the next bar and this trick in data may lead to wrong interpretation of the market.

Nothing like the half volume etc. read it again it have simple meaning as its written.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSI

But my question is how many of us can read the market as a continuous flow? I find it extremely challenging. Firstly, this requires reexamination of whatever we have learned so far. Secondly there is lot of noise in the market. Price does tend to move far beyond than what we "think" "reasonable price" due to noise. Thirdly when we started learning trading all most all of us used to be the slaves of "indicators". It requires lot of guts, experience and knowledge to reject them in trading firmly and forever. This is not at all easy. It is not so easy to giveup old habits.

There is TA beyond "Noise" "Reasonable Price" "indicators".

NeutralBlue · #89 20th May 2008, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSI

I have one suggestion (or treat it as a request from me) to you, only if you do not mind doing so. Why can't you post at least for a few days (may be in a seperate thread) how you see and interpret volume. Even after the facts charts will do. You need not post software codes here.
Thanks in advance and regards
R. S. Iyer

I deleted the post just to avoid such suggestion. Trading systems are made with months of hardwork, with the cost paid to markets for the experience. knowledge is for sharing, business is not.

darsh_goswami · #90 20th May 2008, 08:01 PM

Dear Karthik ,.. ur VSA is impressive ,...

Need some material to code it in Metastock or if u know and if u dont mind share it.

Regards,..
Darsh