Traderji.com - Discussion forum for Stocks Commodities & Forex

What is money management

Discuss What is money management at the Risk & Money Management within the Traderji.com - Discussion forum for Stocks Commodities & Forex; Originally Posted by emmah With Respect to CreditViolet the Money Management definition is not entirely ...


Go Back   Traderji.com - Discussion forum for Stocks Commodities & Forex > METHODS & STRATEGIES > Risk & Money Management


Risk & Money Management Discuss risk and money management techniques and methods to protect your trading capital.


Advertise Here

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #61  
Old 28th June 2008, 11:28 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: noida
Posts: 195
Thanks: 1
Thanked 25 Times in 17 Posts
skarpio will become famous soon enough
Default Re: What is money management


Quote:
Originally Posted by emmah View Post
With Respect to CreditViolet the Money Management definition is not entirely correct.
Please quote the OP. FWIW see this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by CreditViolet View Post
Money management is the process of analyzing trades for risk and potential profits, determining how much risk, if any, is acceptable and managing a trade position (if taken) to control risk and maximize profitability.[...]
Which is closer to what you preach later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by emmah View Post
[...]Money Management is like sex: [...]
Lame. You sound like the ad guy. Quoting or marking out similarities does not make a valid argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by emmah View Post
Stop placement does not address the question, how much?
Rhetoric.
Quote:
Originally Posted by emmah View Post
[...]
Money Management optimizes capital usage. Few have the ability to view their portfolios as a whole.
About the only line worth reading.
Quote:
Originally Posted by emmah View Post
For more than a decade I consistently found that those that failed to remove emotion and guesswork with regard to correct Money Risk Management, were destined to fail.
JBL Risk Manager is a [...]
9 posts and counting, and not a single opportunity you've let go to advertise your favorite system. It is not a crime, but you sound like those spambots.

You could have simply written that my subjective views are:
Quote:
MM deals with how much risk to be undertaken at a given point of time and how much asset allocation should follow a risk.

RM deals with identification, analysis and mitigation of a given risk based on its priority.
PS: In case you're wondering, yes I am CV's spambot out here to counter anything anyone says against him. And yes, I tend to run into relationship risks.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #62  
Old 28th June 2008, 01:24 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 10,394
Thanks: 1,160
Thanked 2,369 Times in 960 Posts
uasish has a reputation beyond reputeuasish has a reputation beyond reputeuasish has a reputation beyond reputeuasish has a reputation beyond reputeuasish has a reputation beyond reputeuasish has a reputation beyond reputeuasish has a reputation beyond reputeuasish has a reputation beyond reputeuasish has a reputation beyond reputeuasish has a reputation beyond reputeuasish has a reputation beyond reputeuasish has a reputation beyond reputeuasish has a reputation beyond reputeuasish has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: What is money management

" PS: In case you're wondering, yes I am CV's spambot out here to counter anything anyone says against him. And yes, I tend to run into relationship risks."

The r/r is good with handsome Profit Factor,,you may also count me in.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 28th June 2008, 08:04 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,086
Thanks: 9
Thanked 60 Times in 40 Posts
beginner_av will become famous soon enoughbeginner_av will become famous soon enough
Default Re: What is money management

Hi spammy, my ad bot,

A few things to report to your master/mistress:

Quote:
Money Management is like sex: Everyone does it, one way or another, but not many like to talk about it and some do it better than others.
Nope, everyone doesn't do it. In fact looking at traders' records a comparison between sex and MM is futile as it may seem that more than half of human race is celibate or sterile.

Quote:
But there's a big difference: Sex sites on the Web proliferate, while sites devoted to the art and science of Money and Risk Management are somewhat difficult to find.
Porn sites proliferate, if thats what you mean. This is visited mostly by people who dont have/get enough sex. Similarly MM software is mainly bought by people who dont know/understand/get enough of MM. Or else a simple Excel sheet is enough. What is required is a good understanding of statistics, that no software can provide.

Quote:
Money Management tells you how many shares to trade at any given time. It is a defensive concept that keeps you in the game to play another day. Don’t confuse Money Management with Stop placement. Stop placement does not address the question, how much?
If stop placement is not MM, neither is "how many shares to trade at any given time". Thats just position size. MM is much much more.

Quote:
I urge you to give it a try today! I know it will be one of your best trading decisions you will ever make.
Click here to download a free 14 day trial

SInce when did buying a software ever become any good trading decision?
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 6th July 2008, 07:06 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
fictitious is on a distinguished road
Default Re: What is money management

nice article on money management.

Quote:
12. Always have an actual stop in the market. "Mental stops" do not work.

very true!
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 8th February 2009, 10:06 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 152
Thanks: 0
Thanked 19 Times in 16 Posts
thesaint is on a distinguished road
Default Re: What is money management

can anyone tell me how can i manage my money with tally pls provide me the setup how to enter the ledger/groups and how to post entries of buy and sell of shares with it exact detials
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 8th February 2009, 11:28 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 533
Thanks: 187
Thanked 216 Times in 102 Posts
vvvv has a spectacular aura aboutvvvv has a spectacular aura aboutvvvv has a spectacular aura about
Default Re: What is money management

Quote:
Originally Posted by emmah View Post
for more than a decade i consistently found that those that failed to remove emotion and guesswork with regard to correct money risk management, were destined to fail.
who the hell r u & wht do u think of urself....wht r ur credentials???? R u a millionare or a billionare or sum rock star???
Go out man , take a break , do a reality check...
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 9th March 2009, 08:10 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 14
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
vinod304 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: What is money management

very valuable advise.. being a novice trader, making some of the common mistakes listed here, this becomes more relevant to follow.. strictly..
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 9th March 2009, 09:11 PM
TFL's Avatar
TFL TFL is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: India.
Posts: 1,758
Thanks: 1,515
Thanked 1,326 Times in 622 Posts
TFL has much to be proud ofTFL has much to be proud ofTFL has much to be proud ofTFL has much to be proud ofTFL has much to be proud ofTFL has much to be proud ofTFL has much to be proud ofTFL has much to be proud ofTFL has much to be proud ofTFL has much to be proud of
Default Re: What is money management

Quote:
Originally Posted by CreditViolet View Post
Money management is the process of analyzing trades for risk and potential profits, determining how much risk, if any, is acceptable and managing a trade position (if taken) to control risk and maximize profitability.
Many traders pay lip service to money management while spending the bulk of their time and energy trying to find the perfect (read: imaginary) trading system or entry method. But traders ignore money management at their own peril.

The importance of money management can best be shown through drawdown analysis.
Drawdown
Drawdown is simply the amount of money you lose trading, expressed as a percentage of your total trading equity. If all your trades were profitable, you would never experience a drawdown. Drawdown does not measure overall performance, only the money lost while achieving that performance. Its calculation begins only with a losing trade and continues as long as the account hits new equity lows.


Suppose you begin with an account of 10,000 and lose 2,000. Your drawdown would be 20%. On the 8,000 that remains, if you subsequently make 1,000, then lose 2,000, you now have a drawdown of 30% (8,000 + 1,000 - 2,000 =7,000, a 30% loss on the original equity stake of 10,000). But, if you made 4,000 after the initial 2,000 loss (increasing your account equity to 12,000), then lost another 3,000, your drawdown would be 25% (12,000 - 3,000 = 9,000, a 25% drop from the new equity high of 12,000).

Maximum drawdown is the largest percentage drop in your account between equity peaks. In other words, it's how much money you lose until you get back to breakeven. If you began with 10,000 and lost 4,000 before getting back to breakeven, your maximum drawdown would be 40%. Keep in mind that no matter how much you are up in your account at any given time--100%, 200%, 300%--a 100% drawdown will wipe out your trading account. This leads us to our next topic: the difficulty of recovering from drawdowns.

Even worse is that as the drawdowns deepen, the recovery percentage begins to grow geometrically. For example, a 50% loss requires a 100% return just to get back to break even (see Table 1 and Figure 1 for details).

Professional traders and money mangers are well aware of how difficult it is to recover from drawdowns. Those who succeed long term have the utmost respect for risk. They get on top and stay on top, not by being gunslingers and taking huge risks, but by controlling risk through proper money management. Sure, we all like to read about famous traders who parlay small sums into fortunes, but what these stories fail to mention is that many such traders, through lack of respect for risk, are eventually wiped out.


Guidelines that should help your long-term trading success.
1. Risk only a small percentage of total equity on each trade, preferably no more than 2% of your portfolio value. I know of two traders who have been actively trading for over 15 years, both of whom have amassed small fortunes during this time. In fact, both have paid for their dream homes with cash out of their trading accounts. I was amazed to find out that one rarely trades over 1,000 shares of stock and the other rarely trades more than two or three futures contracts at a time. Both use extremely tight stops and risk less than 1% per trade.

2. Limit your total portfolio risk to 20%. In other words, if you were stopped out on every open position in your account at the same time, you would still retain 80% of your original trading capital.

3. Keep your reward-to-risk ratio at a minimum of 2:1, and preferably 3:1 or higher. In other words, if you are risking 1 point on each trade, you should be making, on average, at least 2 points. An S&P futures system I recently saw did just the opposite: It risked 3 points to make only 1. That is, for every losing trade, it took 3 winners make up for it. The first drawdown (string of losses) would wipe out all of the trader's money.

4. Be realistic about the amount of risk required to properly trade a given market. For instance, don't kid yourself by thinking you are only risking a small amount if you are position trading (holding overnight) in a high-flying technology stock or a highly leveraged and volatile market like the S&P futures.

5. Understand the volatility of the market you are trading and adjust position size accordingly. That is, take smaller positions in more volatile stocks and futures. Also, be aware that volatility is constantly changing as markets heat up and cool off.

6. Understand position correlation. If you are long heating oil, crude oil and unleaded gas, in reality you do not have three positions. Because these markets are so highly correlated (meaning their price moves are very similar), you really have one position in energy with three times the risk of a single position. It would essentially be the same as trading three crude, three heating oil, or three unleaded gas contracts.

7. Lock in at least a portion of windfall profits. If you are fortunate enough to catch a substantial move in a short amount of time, liquidate at least part of your position. This is especially true for short-term trading, for which large gains are few and far between.

8. The more active a trader you are, the less you should risk per trade. Obviously, if you are making dozens of trades a day you can't afford to risk even 2% per trade--one really bad day could virtually wipe you out. Longer-term traders who may make three to four trades per year could risk more, say 3-5% per trade. Regardless of how active you are, just limit total portfolio risk to 20% (rule #2).

9. Make sure you are adequately capitalized. There is no "Holy Grail" in trading. However, if there was one, I think it would be having enough money to trade and taking small risks. These principles help you survive long enough to prosper. I know of many successful traders who wiped out small accounts early in their careers. It was only until they became adequately capitalized and took reasonable risks that they survived as long term traders.

10. Never add to or "average down" a losing position. If you are wrong, admit it and get out. Two wrongs do not make a right.

11. Avoid pyramiding altogether or only pyramid properly. By "properly," I mean only adding to profitable positions and establishing the largest position first. In other words the position should look like an actual pyramid. For example, if your typical total position size in a stock is 1000 shares then you might initially buy 600 shares, add 300 (if the initial position is profitable), then 100 more as the position moves in your direction. In addition, if you do pyramid, make sure the total position risk is within the guidelines outlined earlier (i.e., 2% on the entire position, total portfolio risk no more that 20%, etc.).

12. Always have an actual stop in the market. "Mental stops" do not work.

13. Be willing to take money off the table as a position moves in your favor; "2-for-1 money management1" is a good start. Essentially, once your profits exceed your initial risk, exit half of your position and move your stop to breakeven on the remainder of your position. This way, barring overnight gaps, you are ensured, at worst, a breakeven trade, and you still have the potential for gains on the remainder of the position.

14. Understand the market you are trading. This is especially true in derivative trading (i.e. options, futures).

15. Strive to keep maximum drawdowns between 20 and 25%. Once drawdowns exceed this amount it becomes increasingly difficult, if not impossible, to completely recover. The importance of keeping drawdowns within reason was illustrated in the first installment of this series.

16. Be willing to stop trading and re-evaluate the markets and your methodology when you encounter a string of losses. The markets will always be there. Gann said it best in his book, How to Make Profits in Commodities, published over 50 years ago: "When you make one to three trades that show losses, whether they be large or small, something is wrong with you and not the market. Your trend may have changed. My rule is to get out and wait. Study the reason for your losses. Remember, you will never lose any money by being out of the market."

17. Consider the psychological impact of losing money. Unlike most of the other techniques discussed here, this one can't be quantified. Obviously, no one likes to lose money. However, each individual reacts differently. You must honestly ask yourself, What would happen if I lose X%? Would it have a material effect on my lifestyle, my family or my mental well being? You should be willing to accept the consequences of being stopped out on any or all of your trades. Emotionally, you should be completely comfortable with the risks you are taking.

The main point is that money management doesn't have to be rocket science. It all boils down to understanding the risk of the investment, risking only a small percentage on any one trade (or trading approach) and keeping total exposure within reason. While the list above is not exhaustive, I believe it will help keep you out of the majority of trouble spots. Those who survive to become successful traders not only study methodologies for trading, but they also study the risks associated with them. I strongly urge you to do the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint View Post
Great write-up ...Very useful for every trader,be they day,momentum,swing,etc......Thanx!!!!
But just a copy paste from Dave Landry's script.
http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/...les/-74644.cfm
haribird.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 10th March 2009, 11:12 AM
Capricorn's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,238
Thanks: 281
Thanked 808 Times in 476 Posts
Capricorn is a splendid one to beholdCapricorn is a splendid one to beholdCapricorn is a splendid one to beholdCapricorn is a splendid one to beholdCapricorn is a splendid one to beholdCapricorn is a splendid one to beholdCapricorn is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: What is money management

Very true......
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 13th March 2009, 04:07 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 23
Thanks: 1
Thanked 14 Times in 11 Posts
age_of_turbulence is on a distinguished road
Default Re: What is money management

Money Management is probably the most underrated aspect of succesful trading. It isn't rocket science; but it is (like analytics in general) the culmination of science and art. Intrinsic rules of not chasing losses apply to all forms of money management; but the ket is to arrive at exposure levels on positions that make sense. It starts with asset allocation on your overall portfolio and I've lost count of the number of times I've come accross fundamentally risk-averse human beings take on 100% or thereabouts equity allocations based on some false promise of unlimited riches on the other side of their trading/investing strategy. Knowing yourself is key to allocating your resources. Also knowing that you don't know everything there is to know is fundamental to weighing risk adequately. Some 5% of gamblers make money, but 55% think they're making money. There's a lesson to be learnt in there, somewhere. An investor and a sepculator aren't differentiated based on short-term and long-term horizons, they are differentiated by the atitude they carry in their activities. The best investors I've met allow the market to talk to them and seldom look ahead more than a few trading sessions.


Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Advertise Here


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads for: What is money management
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The most important factor in successful trading TradingPicks Risk & Money Management 20 3rd April 2008 02:03 AM
Money Management nkpanjiyar Equities 6 16th July 2007 01:48 AM
Free Money Management Calculator Debraj Software 2 12th June 2005 01:28 PM
Books On Practical Money Management sh50 Trading Resources 2 31st October 2004 09:36 PM
Interesting money management related quotes. sh50 Risk & Money Management 0 29th September 2004 10:21 PM


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 01:52 PM.

Indemnity, Disclaimer & Disclosure Notice:
• By visiting Traderji.com you automatically indicate that you agree to our Forum Rules, Indemnity, Disclaimer & Disclosure Notice and General Content Disclaimer Notice and indemnify Traderji.com, its associates and related parties of all claims howsoever resulting from the usage of the forum/site.
Disclaimer: Trading or investing in stocks & commodities is a high risk activity. Any action you choose to take in the markets is totally your own responsibility. You are recommended to make appropriate enquiries and seek appropriate advise before sending money, incurring any expenses, acting on recommendations or entering into any commitment in relation to any advertisement published here. Traderji.com does not vouch for any claims made by the advertisers of products and services. Traderji.com will not be held liable for any consequences in the event such claims are not honoured by the advertisers. Traderji.com will not be liable for any, direct or indirect, consequential or incidental damages or loss arising out of the use of any information by anybody mentioned anywhere on this site.
Disclosure: The information in this forum is neither an offer to sell nor solicitation to buy any of the securities mentioned herein. The writers may or may not be trading in the securities mentioned.
• All names or products mentioned are trademarks or registered trademarks of their respective owners.
General Content Disclaimer Notice:
In light of our policy of encouraging candid, open exchanges of views and the rapid distribution of information originating from many sources, Traderji.com cannot determine the accuracy of information that may be uploaded to the forum. Opinions, advice and all other information expressed by participants in discussions are those of the author. You rely on such information at your own risk. You are urged to seek professional advice for specific, individual situations and not rely solely on advice or opinions given in the discussions. Since Traderji.com is an open and free discussion forum, any comments made by members of this forum in their posts reflect their own views and not of the owner or administrator of Traderji.com. Thus the owner/administrator indemnify themselves of all claims whatsoever and will not be liable or responsible for any members comments/views in this forum Traderji.com. If you find any objectionable or offensive posts made by members of this forum which you would like to bring to our notice for removal then please Contact Us.
 


Copyright © 2001 - 2010, Traderji.com All Rights Reserved.

Recommended Websites - www.TradersEdgeIndia.com - www.TradingPicks.com - www.MasterOfTrading.com