Traderji.com Kolkata Meet

Excellent Idea

What I have learned:

1. A successful trader has a keen sense of risk. Ashishda has a dollar stop for each day! He said forget the profits, control your losses and profits will take of themselves.

2. He also said that, to start of as a trader think small. Think babysteps. Set small goals and strive to accomplish them. (Both the above methods are essential for rookies).

3. Sense of self worth must not be attached with each trade. Ego must not be involved in trading. Each time we say or think anything predictive about the market we have already involved our ego. Therefore, one must only listen to what the market is saying. For ex: if the higher pivot cracks then the market is up and vice versa. This is simply market communicating with us. By having a similar mind set Saint often feels his trading is like meditation.

4. Have faith in your trading method. First test it out thoroughly. But once you have, then trade those rules constantly with unwavering faith. SGM told me to consider this trip as a "Pilgrimage of Faith". (This I thought was the most important point... faith).

5. Joy_Mitali emphasized that I should strive to find my own way. No one elses method is going to work for me. I could start off using an approved method like Saint's, but eventually I will have to make it my own through diligence.

Besides other finer details, the above are the salient points that I thought would help most readers. Thank you Ashishda, Saint, SGM, Joy_Mitali and Biyasc for the conversations.

Amit. Jain.
Mumbai.

Thank you amit for starting and sharing your lessons.we are eager to hear from other participants also.others pl share what you have learned from the meet so that it will be useful to all of us.thank you.

I learnt a couple of things which i will enlist-
1)Saint's method- filtering the trades by comparing the trend in higher and lower tf's.
2) Asish da's - RSI 50 and 60 intraday funda.
3) Sanjay's logic- trading system ko thok baja ke lo fir use it dilligently.


these are all i can recollect for now.

Adding "like u do at the time of ur marriage, once choose cannot be returned" - Sanjay

Regards.

EGO
wht is ego??? surely if one googles it he can find it out.so no need to explan it.we talk tht ego shud not be there in trading.the biggies write abt it in their books & sell it to the public. they write abt emotional trading , we talk abt it whole day long, we hold discussions ....but hey people , have we gone deep down into our own selves to analyse how big is our ego....never we do tht...
for ex: if a write sumthin bad abt XYZ in this very forum whom ive met in the meet, he wll immediately reply back & along with him sum other forum members may.the point is not why i shud write bad abt him.the pt is why has XYZ retaliated back...the simple reason is tht his ego got hurt..so wht shud XYZ do .take the insult lying down..well wht shud XYZ ideally do is very well written in the bhagwad gita or the ramayana where the lord has himself shown wht to do.for ex if the same thing wud have been old to krishna insted of XYZ, he wud have laughed at me & ignored me & he wud continously do so upto a point tolerable by him...after tht he shud have shown me in his own way why he is right & im wrong.no doubt his tolerance level wud be extremely high.
the reason he can do so is bcos he has got full control of his senses & his ego.
but for mortals like us ,we cant do so bcos we are born with an ego . sum has a bigger ego , & sum smaller.& depends on evey person.
so the thing which evry1 says " take out the ego out of your trading" is actually a fallacy , myth & is not reality & can never be bcos we are born with this thng.. it is deep rooted in us.
ask any big time trader " reveal ur entire system to me so tht i can make sum money"..u know wht answer to expect..so wht is tht thing called...tht is called ego..why..??? he will say" its my lifetim work & u want it just lke tht???". he will not part with it even if u offer him money.
the point here is the "ego part" & not asking sum1 to reveal his trading systems...we all fall in tht category.we all have a big ego ...yes the magnitude differs from person to person...how can we get rid of it...never..thts a diff topic involving spiritualism which is not the point of discussion here.
so the thing called " take out the ego out of your trading" doesnt exist
& will never exist...we can think of how to reduce our ego...gentlemen until & unless we follow it in our own lives we can never reduce the "ego in our trading"..we first have to learn to be gud people first , lessen our ego as much as possible & then only apply it practically in our trading.bcos when we sit to trade its us against the market.so wht we are from inside all cumes out (our emotions,ego,everything) during trading.remember this thing is an imp part of every trading system.this thing may sound very rubbish to sum people but then again reality remains a reality & will never change.u have to fine tune your inner system so wake up to reality & ego is reality..the sooner we wake up to it & the better it will be for us...

A Rlevent article posted in this forum sometimes in June 2004 by Anil, reposted below :

Article: Trading Without Ego
by Ruth Barrons Roosevelt


Make no mistake about it. A trader's self concept has to be separate from the trading. Who you are as a person began before you ever thought of trading and who you will be as a person will extend beyond your trading. When personal self-worth entwines with trading, it not only damages self esteem, it sabotages the trading.

You hear about it. You read about it. Don't be misled. Traders tell stories. They write stories. They tell how great they are. Big trades. Big numbers. Big egos. Hubris. And sooner or later, big downfalls. It goes with the territory.

Consider the outsized egos of certain traders who brought themselves and those associated with them to ruin. Nicholas Leeson brought down the Barings Bank. Victor Niederhoffer ran his fund into deficit. John Merriweather threatened the health of our banking system by betting more than fifty times his capital that his strategies were certain to work, that he could forecast with impunity the direction of various bond markets. There's a pattern here of seeming or real success for a while and then collapse for themselves and for those caught up in blindly following them.

As Wayne Dyer said, Authentic freedom cannot be experienced until one learns to tame the ego and move out of self-absorption.

In his wonderful book, Pit Bull , Marty Schwartz tells several stories of the times he lost money because his ego got in the way. In the end he has this to say about ego:

I've said it before, and I'm going to say it again, because it cannot be overemphasized: the most important change in my trading career occurred when I learned to DIVORCE MY EGO FROM THE TRADE. Trading is a psychological game. Most people think that they're playing against the market, but the market doesn't care. You're really playing against yourself. You have to stop trying to will things to happen in order to prove that you're right. Listen only to what the market is telling you now. Forget what you thought it was telling you five minutes ago. The sole objective of trading is not to prove you're right, but to hear the cash register ring.

Because trading is an uncertain game of probabilities filled with uncertain vagaries, an overly inflated ego or a fragile ego can easily get smashed. Defending the ego uses up unnecessary energy, distorts perception, and sooner or later, will destroy the trading. If your self esteem rises and falls with your trading results, you and your trading are in trouble. Self concept has to be strong and durable and not at the mercy of the current, last, or next trade.

We need to check our egos at the door when we start to trade. Uncertainty is central to trading. If we add the uncertainty of our own self image into the mix of the unknowable endemic to trading, we're in for certain trouble sooner or later.

Some typical symptoms of egotizing trading would be the following:


· Not putting in stops. The ego doesn't want to be proven wrong.
· Hesitating before putting on a trade. The ego wants reassurance before it begins.
· Overtrading. The ego wants to prove itself big time.
· Getting stuck in a trade. The ego has intertwined itself with a trade and is holding on for dear life. It cannot cut out. The ego doesn't want to be wrong.
· Adding to a losing trade. The ego digs its hole deeper in a massive effort to crawl out.
· Grabbing a profit too soon. The ego wants a pat on the back.

How do we separate our ego from our trading? How do we keep from personalizing a trade? How do we avoid personalizing all of our trading?

One way to separate your ego from your trading is to build healthy boundaries between yourself and your trading. Not only do good fences make good neighbors, good boundaries make good traders.

A boundary sets limits, makes distinctions, informs you as to what is you and what is not you, makes clear the distinction between you and others, tells you where one thing ends and another begins. It distinguishes between past, present, and future. It lets you know that another's ideas, values, and feelings are not necessarily yours. A boundary is flexible and permeable. It lets information flow back and forth. It allows you to listen actively without having to take on someone else's opinions and without having to force your opinions on another person. In trading it draws a distinction between yourself and your trading, between one trade and another, between one trade and all of your trading.

One trader would see the signal to take a trade and before she could put the trade on, she'd hear a voice saying, "What if I'm wrong?" Immediately she'd feel small and diminished. The next step was simply to let the trade go by as she sat there stalled by her vulnerable ego. She needed a boundary between her self-esteem and the outcome of a trade. She needed a boundary between self worth and being wrong. With such a boundary she could give herself permission to not always have to be right.

Another trader had had nineteen winning trades in a row. The tension was building and he was strung tighter than a drum when he came to see me. I congratulated him on his recent success and asked him what would be so awful if the next trade was a loser. He said, "I'd lose my self-esteem, and without self-esteem you're nothing. What an untenable state of affairs! His self concept was riding on the results of the next trade. John needed a boundary between himself and his trading. He needed to know that his ego would be intact regardless of what happened to his trading.

A healthy boundary lets you know the difference between your business and yourself, between your trading and yourself. You are more than your business. You are more than your trading. A boundary also informs you that the results of one trade are not to be confused with the results of all of your trading. Boundaries guide you as to the difference between the past, the present, and the future.

Another way to get some distance between yourself and your trading is to look at it from different perspectives. This is also true in your relationships with other people. In most interactions with another person there are three different and separate perceptual positions.

The self position is looking through your own eyes, hearing what you hear, feeling your own feelings, holding your own beliefs, and making your own interpretations. Most of us live our lives in this position. This is the position that gives you passion. It's where the juice is. From this position we have access to some information, but not all of it.

The observer position is that of a neutral observer, a fair witness. This is a dissociated position. Here you watch yourself and the other person. Here you are in the role of a spectator as you listen to yourself and the other person. As an observer you'll have a third party's commentary. This gives you an impartial view, but if you stay here too long, you could end up playing the role of the cold fish.

The other position gives you the other person's point of view. Here you look at things through the eyes of the other, hold the other's feelings, walk and stand in the other's shoes. This position gives you the ability to identify with and through another person. Here you see the world through another person's eyes and get a sense of what they're feeling. If you live too much in this position, you could be in danger of living in the doormat position.

By going to the observer position, you can gain perspective and neutrality. Some successful traders move to the observer position when they put on a trade. If you're getting too involved in a trade, move to the observer position and look at it from that perspective. At the end of a given trade or at the end of a trading day, take a look at your trading from the fair witness position.

You can also look at your trading through the eyes of another person, for example, a trading buddy, a trading coach, or a trader you admire. What would this person say? What would they think? What, if any, advice would they give you?

Ego involves a separateness from all else. Let me recommend an exercise that will help you experience your oneness with the universe and release egocentricity. Go for a walk, or you can even do it inside. I prefer to do it walking down by the New York harbor. Look carefully at a tree, a plant, a cloud, a wave, or a flower or any other object such as a rock, a sidewalk, or a bench. Notice it's shape and the space it occupies. Become the object and experience yourself as filling that space. Keep doing this with different forms. After a while you'll experience wonderful freedom and energy

sorry all friend.............i have no more ego...........i lost my mother

Friends, Sorry for this late post and now it seems all has been said that needed to be told about the Great Kolkata Meet. Anything left shall be told by the recording of the meet to be put up.

I find we have failed to acknowledge the valuable inputs by rhimadri on his trading system. (Or maybe I missed to read the same).

So here I go giving the details as I have understood about the Trading System RHIMADRI had so kindly shared with us all :

He uses FChart Pro and says its a very good software.
He says : Time is MOST IMPORTANT factor in deciding a system set up. Fine tuning Time periods is VERY VERY IMPORTANT.
He uses MACD and CCI.

His set up has
MACD EMA (9,12,26)
1. CCI 14 with 9 days smoothing
2. CCI 20 with 9 days smoothing.


Whenever MACD goes above Signal line, a small quantity is taken.
When CCI 1 is greater than CCI 2 more quantity is taken
When CCI 1 > 100 double quantity is taken.
When CCI 1 goes below 100 exit fully.

Other exit scenario : CCI 2 is less than CCI 1

Imp. comment by RHIMADRI : CCI overbought is a misconception.

I would request RHIMADRI to correct mt post of any errors that might have cropped in.

I however could not configure the system in Metastock. Reason being myself a novice in handling Metastock and also MACD EMA I could not adjust to the specification given by RHIMADRI.
Need help to set up the SET UP in metastock.

So friends here we have selfless people like Saint, Rhimadri, Uashish, Saumya, swagat, Sanjay, Biyasc who all SHARED their trading sytems strategies and Ashish Da went a step further he gave a ready madew EXPERT/INDICATOR for Metastock. All these people have overcome the EGO as said by VVVV in his post about traders not SHARING due to ego problems. They are bound to be ever successful in their trades.
All the best to all of them. They have certainly enriched the trading perspective of many of us and hopefully very soon the Bank Accounts too !!!!

Hat's Off to the selfless genius , who share their knowledge.I hope one day I would also be able to contribute after learning from the great minds ...

Raju.