Hang Seng ETF may not be the best bet for diversification

Do you think Hangseng ETF can diversify your investments

  • Yes, It will help in Diversification

    Votes: 4 57.1%
  • No, It is not a great option

    Votes: 3 42.9%
  • Can't say

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    7
  • Poll closed .

riser3

Active Member
#1
Benchmark Mutual Fund, Indias exchange-traded fund (ETF)-specialist fund company launched an ETF that is linked to the Hang Seng index of the Hong Kong stock exchange. ETFs are exchange-traded funds, that is, mutual funds that are traded on stock exchanges such as stocks. ETFs are always linked to some underlying index or other price they are not actively managed by an investment manager. There are a number of ETFs in India that are either linked to one of the indices or to Gold prices.

The Hang Seng ETF, which is called Hang Seng BeES, will be available for trading on the National Stock Exchange (NSE). The interesting thing about this ETF is that it offers the Indian investor a way to diversify geographically in an easy and convenient manner. On the face of it, such diversification should be a good idea because it would offer an investor an asset that may counteract a weakness in one area withbetter returns in another.

However, thats the theory. We need to see whether such diversity is actually offered by the Hang Seng. The connection between two investments can be of many different types. The ideal would be if the two assets have a negative or inverse correlation. This means that when one asset does badly, the other does well. Traditionally, gold and stocks and stocks and bonds were supposed to have such correlations. Certainly, the Indian stock markets and the Hong Kong market do not have this kind of correlation.

In fact the two markets actually have a direct correlation. When one does well, the other does well too. The correlation is very high. Over the past five years, the two indices had a correlation of 0.93 on a scale where perfect correlation is 1 and perfect inverse correlation is -1. The closer the correlation is to -1, the more useful two assets are as diversification for each other. In this sense, buying the Hang Seng ETF is completely useless from the diversification point of view.

However, thats a theoretical point of view. If two markets gain and lose together but one generally does better than the other, then for the practical investor seeking to maximise his gains, thats a useful kind of diversification. In this sense, the Nifty has better performance over the past five years. However, if one looks a little more closely, then this better performance is basically limited to the pre-2006 period and to the recovery from the crash last year. Past performance is just a good source of 20:20 hindsight, which is ultimately useless.

Going forward, diversifying into the Hang Seng is basically a call on whether China will do better than India and whether this difference will be large enough to be useful. My guess is that it wont be. Hang Seng being available on NSE will give the punters yet another security to play with. For fund investors who genuinely want to take a call on China and that region, there are X funds (normal, not ETFs) already available that invest in China to varying degrees. These are the Fortis China-India fund, Miraes China Advantage Fund and the JP Morgans JF Greater China Equity Offshore Fund.

However, investors just need to be clear that investing in China-related stocks is not a diversification but an independent call about China.

Written by: Mr. Dhirendra Shah

I would like to add a few more words

as far as I now it can't be considered as direct bet on china as Mainland China has a separate index called shanghai composite. so it's one more No to the above

It's true that emerging markets provide good returns but Hangseng might not be the only aswer if we have something like BRC Fund(Without I-India) then it can be called diversification across geographies(though R, C belong to Asia). So something like ABCS is needed

Australia -- Mines and Minerals
Brazil -- Agriculture and allied products
China -- Manufacturing
Saudi -- crude.

The problem with Hangseng is only 50% of Mainland china's companies are listed in Hangseng so what we effectively needed was Shanghai Composite to reflect China not Hangseng
 
#2
Benchmark Mutual Fund, Indias exchange-traded fund (ETF)-specialist fund company launched an ETF that is linked to the Hang Seng index of the Hong Kong stock exchange. ETFs are exchange-traded funds, that is, mutual funds that are traded on stock exchanges such as stocks. ETFs are always linked to some underlying index or other price they are not actively managed by an investment manager. There are a number of ETFs in India that are either linked to one of the indices or to Gold prices.

The Hang Seng ETF, which is called Hang Seng BeES, will be available for trading on the National Stock Exchange (NSE). The interesting thing about this ETF is that it offers the Indian investor a way to diversify geographically in an easy and convenient manner. On the face of it, such diversification should be a good idea because it would offer an investor an asset that may counteract a weakness in one area withbetter returns in another.

However, thats the theory. We need to see whether such diversity is actually offered by the Hang Seng. The connection between two investments can be of many different types. The ideal would be if the two assets have a negative or inverse correlation. This means that when one asset does badly, the other does well. Traditionally, gold and stocks and stocks and bonds were supposed to have such correlations. Certainly, the Indian stock markets and the Hong Kong market do not have this kind of correlation.

In fact the two markets actually have a direct correlation. When one does well, the other does well too. The correlation is very high. Over the past five years, the two indices had a correlation of 0.93 on a scale where perfect correlation is 1 and perfect inverse correlation is -1. The closer the correlation is to -1, the more useful two assets are as diversification for each other. In this sense, buying the Hang Seng ETF is completely useless from the diversification point of view.

However, thats a theoretical point of view. If two markets gain and lose together but one generally does better than the other, then for the practical investor seeking to maximise his gains, thats a useful kind of diversification. In this sense, the Nifty has better performance over the past five years. However, if one looks a little more closely, then this better performance is basically limited to the pre-2006 period and to the recovery from the crash last year. Past performance is just a good source of 20:20 hindsight, which is ultimately useless.

Going forward, diversifying into the Hang Seng is basically a call on whether China will do better than India and whether this difference will be large enough to be useful. My guess is that it wont be. Hang Seng being available on NSE will give the punters yet another security to play with. For fund investors who genuinely want to take a call on China and that region, there are X funds (normal, not ETFs) already available that invest in China to varying degrees. These are the Fortis China-India fund, Miraes China Advantage Fund and the JP Morgans JF Greater China Equity Offshore Fund.

However, investors just need to be clear that investing in China-related stocks is not a diversification but an independent call about China.

Written by: Mr. Dhirendra Shah

I would like to add a few more words

as far as I now it can't be considered as direct bet on china as Mainland China has a separate index called shanghai composite. so it's one more No to the above

It's true that emerging markets provide good returns but Hangseng might not be the only aswer if we have something like BRC Fund(Without I-India) then it can be called diversification across geographies(though R, C belong to Asia). So something like ABCS is needed

Australia -- Mines and Minerals
Brazil -- Agriculture and allied products
China -- Manufacturing
Saudi -- crude.

The problem with Hangseng is only 50% of Mainland china's companies are listed in Hangseng so what we effectively needed was Shanghai Composite to reflect China not Hangseng
I remember the late 2008 fund offerrings by MF's wherein everyone was offerred to invest in developed markets.. asusual like a herd mentality every MF floated a fund and investors lapped it up..

two things which we need to keep in mind:

  1. Investors need to remember ex rate movements as well.. Rupee is expected to be stronger in the near future
  2. 2. Fund flows to emerging markets and its not the other way round
fund flows to emerging markets and its not the other way around..
 
#3
Benchmark Mutual Fund, India’s exchange-traded fund (ETF)-specialist fund company launched an ETF that is linked to the Hang Seng index of the Hong Kong stock exchange. ETFs are exchange-traded funds, that is, mutual funds that are traded on stock exchanges such as stocks. ETFs are always linked to some underlying index or other price — they are not actively managed by an investment manager. There are a number of ETFs in India that are either linked to one of the indices or to Gold prices.

The Hang Seng ETF, which is called Hang Seng BeES, will be available for trading on the National Stock Exchange (NSE). The interesting thing about this ETF is that it offers the Indian investor a way to diversify geographically in an easy and convenient manner. On the face of it, such diversification should be a good idea because it would offer an investor an asset that may counteract a weakness in one area withbetter returns in another.

However, that’s the theory. We need to see whether such diversity is actually offered by the Hang Seng. The connection between two investments can be of many different types. The ideal would be if the two assets have a negative or inverse correlation. This means that when one asset does badly, the other does well. Traditionally, gold and stocks and stocks and bonds were supposed to have such correlations. Certainly, the Indian stock markets and the Hong Kong market do not have this kind of correlation.

In fact the two markets actually have a direct correlation. When one does well, the other does well too. The correlation is very high. Over the past five years, the two indices had a correlation of 0.93 on a scale where perfect correlation is 1 and perfect inverse correlation is -1. The closer the correlation is to -1, the more useful two assets are as diversification for each other. In this sense, buying the Hang Seng ETF is completely useless from the diversification point of view.

However, that’s a theoretical point of view. If two markets gain and lose together but one generally does better than the other, then for the practical investor seeking to maximise his gains, that’s a useful kind of diversification. In this sense, the Nifty has better performance over the past five years. However, if one looks a little more closely, then this better performance is basically limited to the pre-2006 period and to the recovery from the crash last year. Past performance is just a good source of 20:20 hindsight, which is ultimately useless.

Going forward, diversifying into the Hang Seng is basically a call on whether China will do better than India and whether this difference will be large enough to be useful. My guess is that it won’t be. Hang Seng being available on NSE will give the punters yet another security to play with. For fund investors who genuinely want to take a call on China and that region, there are X funds (normal, not ETFs) already available that invest in China to varying degrees. These are the Fortis’ China-India fund, Mirae’s China Advantage Fund and the JP Morgan’s JF Greater China Equity Offshore Fund.

However, investors just need to be clear that investing in China-related stocks is not a diversification but an independent call about China.

Written by: Mr. Dhirendra Shah

I would like to add a few more words

as far as I now it can't be considered as direct bet on china as Mainland China has a separate index called shanghai composite. so it's one more No to the above

It's true that emerging markets provide good returns but Hangseng might not be the only aswer if we have something like BRC Fund(Without I-India) then it can be called diversification across geographies(though R, C belong to Asia). So something like ABCS is needed

Australia -- Mines and Minerals
Brazil -- Agriculture and allied products
China -- Manufacturing
Saudi -- crude.

The problem with Hangseng is only 50% of Mainland china's companies are listed in Hangseng so what we effectively needed was Shanghai Composite to reflect China not Hangseng
Hangseng ETF is a waste of time and effort. Until and Unless you do not understand a particular psychology of a specific market across any asset class be it currency, commodity or equity, never ever put any money in it.

Here is an example:

On Dec 29, 1989 Nikkei 225- Japan Index made life time intraday high of 38,915.87. After that for last 21 years, it is in downward plunge. Currently it is at 9500 levels.

Japanese people lost all their life time savings.

Never ever invest in a product which you do not understand how traders trade it- The Psychology behind it.

NSE will keep introducing new products because NSE is doing a business and they want to expand their footprint.
 

milind

Active Member
#4
Few misc thoughts.

- Investing in Hangseng is diversification as far as local country factors are concerned
- Both China and India as well as other emerging markets are greatly influenced by the FII money. It exaggerates moves in both bearish and bullish phases. (we are witnessing live example of FII money departing India)
- China, being lot more robust economy than India, gets more hyped, probably deservedly so. Lack of transparency in their economy, is compensated by their growing global political might.
- For better global diversification, probably BRIC (e.g. EEB in US), or overall emerging fund (e.g. ADRE in US) are better choices. Not sure how to do that in India though
 

Similar threads