Is it possible to Short Sell In Cash?

Logik

Active Member
#1
Is it possible to Short Sell In Cash.

Lets say i sold 10 quantity of V stock @ 100Rs , coz i am bearish on it. I am targeting it to be 80Rs. I have no time frame in mind. roughly it is between 25-30 days. also Plz note that i don't have this stock in delivery in my Demat.plz note the stock V is not in F&O segment.

1.So is it possible to short sell this stock in cash.

2.how will the settlement will be done?

3. how much i need to pay to carry on the short position. is it trads full amount i.e. 10*100= 1000 (ignore the charges for a min)

4.lets say after shorting, it went to 110Rs, so am i need to pay for the increased 10Rs. (coz i am in 10Rs loss)

5. whos gonna delivery the stocks to the buyer.

6. For what max time i can carry the short?

I will appreciate if u answer the qs in sequence.
 

bunny

Well-Known Member
#3
Hi,

Yes, you can short in cash, but as FT has already said, it should be covered on the same day.

You cannot do intraday shorting in BSE's T group(or NSE's BE series). If you sell these shares, you have to compulsorily provide delivery of the same. If you try to cover them by buying, you have to compulsorily pay for the delivery.
 

nac

Well-Known Member
#4
^^^ I have read some where that we can go short in cash market. They were saying like this...

With some agreement or something (may be even the broker got plan or something). In which traders can go short, means on behalf of us broker will cover those shares. When the share price comes down to your target or triggering your stop loss (may be put by you or may be specified by broker) you buy it.

Obviously, charges should be higher in this case. I am not sure about the practices of these kinda trades. But I am sure I read it some where, may be even in this forum.

I wonder, Why you are looking into something, which couldn't be exist?
You have plenty of things to trade in numerous combination and styles.
 
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bunny

Well-Known Member
#5
^^^ I have read some where that we can go short in cash market. They were saying like this...

With some agreement or something (may be even that broker got plan or something). In which traders can go short, means on behalf of us broker will cover those shares. When it share price comes down to your target and triggering your stop loss (may be put by you or may be specified by broker) you buy it.

Obviously, charges should be higher in this case. I am not sure about the practice of these kinda trades. But I am sure I read it some where, may be even in this forum.

I wonder, Why you are looking into something, which couldn't be exist?
You have plenty of things to trade in numerous combination and styles.
I have no idea about this, but from the feel of it, it seems that it is available only to the big guys with deep pockets.

SavantGarde may be able to elaborate on what you are speaking.
 

Logik

Active Member
#6
@nac & all
u heard it correctly nac......i read article abt this long bak on some virtual trading game site...

y am i interested in this?

simple, i don't have that much money to do futures trades ATM. so won't it be easy in the equity?? with small money & small quantity?

Well let me paste here what i read

Intro

Traditionally the premise of investing is that you buy an asset and hold it until it rises enough to make a sizable profit, it doesn't get much easier than that. What about the times you come across a stock that you wouldn't invest a penny in, you know that stock is doomed, a sure loser. If you knew that the stock was going to decline wouldn't be nice to be able to profit from its decline. Well you can profit from the decline of a stock and although it sounds easy, there are substantial risks and pitfalls that you need to watch out for. The mechanics of a short sale are somewhat complicated and the investor's risks are high so it is important that you understand the transaction before getting into it.

What does it mean to sell short?

If you sell a stock you don't own, you are selling short.

A short seller sells a stock that he believes will fall in value. A short seller does not own the stock before he sells it. Instead, he borrows it from someone who already owns it. Later, the short seller buys back the stock he shorted and returns the stock to close out the loan. If the stock has fallen in price since he sold short, he can buy the stock back for less than he received for selling it. The difference is his profit.

Short selling allows investors to profit from falling stock prices. "Buy low, sell high" is the goal of both short selling and purchasing shares ("going long"). A short sale reverses the order of a typical stock purchase: the stock is sold first and bought later.

For example, in March 2002, Anil thinks HLL is overvalued. He sells short 100 shares of HLL at Rs. 250 per share. The stock market crashes in April and HLL's share price falls to Rs. 210 per share. Anil buys back 100 shares of HLL and closes out the short sale. Anil gains the difference between the sales proceeds and the purchase costs and pockets Rs. 4,000 from the short sale, excluding transaction costs.

Where Does The Broker Get The Stock?

The short answer is from other customers or the Stock Holding Corp. of India. Short selling is a marginable transaction. In plain English, that means you must open a margin account to sell short. This is the same account you would use if you want to use your stocks as collateral margin to trade in the markets. When you open a margin account, you must sign an agreement with your broker. This agreement says you will maintain a cash margin or pledge your stocks as margin.

How Does Short Sell works?

Unlike a stock purchase transaction, which involves two parties (the buyer and the seller), short selling involves three parties: the original owner, the short seller, and the new buyer. The short seller borrows shares from the original owner, and immediately sells them on the open market to any willing buyer. To finalize ("close out") the short sale transaction, the short seller must then go out into the stock market and buy the same amount of shares as he sold so that the broker can return them to the original owner.

To sell short you first must set up a margin account with your broker. A margin account allows you borrow from your brokerage company using the value of your portfolio as collateral. The general rule is that the value of your portfolio must equal at least 50% of the size of the short sale transaction. In other words, If you have Rs. 100,000 worth of stock/cash in your margin account, you can borrow Rs. 200,000 of stock to sell short.

To sell a stock short, you must borrow stock. To initiate a short sale, you simply call up your broker and ask to sell short a specific number of shares of your selected stock. Your broker then checks with the Margin Department to see whether the shares are available or can be borrowed. If they are available, the brokerage borrows the shares, sells them in the open market, and puts the proceeds into your margin account. To close out your short sale, you tell your broker that you want to buy the same number of shares that you shorted. The broker will purchase the shares for you using the money in your margin account, return the shares and close out the short sale transaction.

While your short sale is outstanding, your account will be charged interest against the value of the short position. If the stock you shorted goes up in price, or the value of the stock you are using as collateral goes down in price, so that your collateral is less than the "maintenance" requirement you will be required to add money to your margin account or buy back the stock that you sold short. You must also pay any dividends issued by the company whose stock you sold short.

Why Sell Short?

The two primary reasons for selling short are opportunism and portfolio protection. Occasionally investors see a stock that they believe has been hyped to a ridiculously high level. They believe that the stock price will fall when reality replaces the hype. A short sale provides the opportunity to profit from the overpriced stock. Short sales are also used to protect an investor's portfolio against a market downturn. By shorting stocks that the investor believes will fall sharply when the market as a whole falls, investors can help insulate the value of their portfolios against sudden market drops.

Short selling is also used to protect portfolios against erosion due to a broad market decline. Short sellers make money when stock prices fall. An investor can diversify a long portfolio by adding some short positions. The portfolio will then have positions that make money both when prices rise and when they fall. This reduces the volatility in the portfolio's returns and helps protect the value of the portfolio when prices are falling.

By shorting carefully selected stocks that are priced near their peak but that will fall sharply if the market falls, an investor can use the profits from the short sales to help offset losses in his long position to protect the value of his portfolio.

Short selling just like long buying is essential for proper functioning of the stock market. It provides essential liquidity which in turn leads to proper price discovery.

Source
So what U peeps say? is this concept is still valid? i called my broker help desk & those ppl are one hell of ignorant
I think one shud be able to short in cash. I've seen option in PIB (power indiabulls) "sell shares not in DP", while placing sell order.


@bunny
dood, thanks for the t2t or BE info.....i never knew that. thanks again.
 
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Logik

Active Member
#8
But my broker is refusing any such thing exist.

i called both my brokers religare & indiabulls.

can any one confirm the authenticity of the article??
 

trader.trends

Well-Known Member
#9
But my broker is refusing any such thing exist.

i called both my brokers religare & indiabulls.

can any one confirm the authenticity of the article??
Experience is the best teacher. Sell one share not in DP in Indiabulls and see what happens. (Sell one on which you have a bearish view). At EOD you can convert it into intraday trade and square the position.

When mkt is stagnant and you are expecting a big break out on either side many people do this. Buy say 100 shares at Rs.100/- in intraday account with SL at 99/- and sell 100 shares in "Not in DP" account at 100/- with SL at 101. Later if the "Sell not in DP" is triggered it can be converted into a intraday trade. You need bigger margin to do this. IB takes 50% margin for such trades when I last checked.
 

nac

Well-Known Member
#10
But my broker is refusing any such thing exist.

i called both my brokers religare & indiabulls.

can any one confirm the authenticity of the article??
Its not about article. Its depend on brokers. (My guess) One broker charging lesser than others and one is doing better customer service. These all differs from broker to broker. Even your thing should be like that. Since most or all of us here in this forum not heard or experienced these kinda trades. You need to enquire this to every broker and open account with broker who offers it.
 

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