1 Lakh to 4.5 Crore in 5 Months..Possible?

praveen taneja

Well-Known Member
This ridiculous thread got so many views tells you how deluded and uninformed some people who read this are....
No bro most of people have a hidden dream like this and want to see ki hamne to koshish ki nahin kahin iski koshish kamyab hui ya nahin:)

Kismat atchhi ho to MMS jaisa aadmi bhi PM ban jaata hai aur kismat kharaab ho to Unt pe baithe aadmi ko bhi kutta kaat leta hai:rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
Paul Rotter - aka "the Eurex Flipper"

Paul is arguably the single largest and most successful individual futures trader on planet Earth, executing trades on the Eurex exchange primarily in the Bund, but also in the Bobl and Schatz interest rate futures. He trades between 200-300,000 round turns daily using the X_Trader platform, and clearing through GNI Touch.

Every trader can aspire to imitate Paul's success as he is proof that it IS possible for a small trader to build on his success and grow into the biggest most active speculator around.

Interview introduction (translated from German language interview with Traders Magazine):

Paul Rotter has made it - he belongs to the best traders in the world and counts as a real big player. he usually does 150,000 rt/d, sometimes up to 250,000 mostly in BUND/BOBL/SCHATZ futures. in the hall of fame of celeb EUREX players he's top notch end even leaves Tom Baldwin (bonds) or Lewis Borsellino (S&P) behind. he had to work hard to make it. he blew up in the beginning of his career, which was painful but also educational - he learned his lesson and with lots of research, seeking improvement all the time, he became the man.

q: was there any key event that brought you into the game?
a: no, no key event like 'buying my first stock'. took part in some trading contest while at school.

q: how did you get to professional trading?
a: when I was apprentice in a German bank I had to work on the DTB (now EUREX) execution desk for several weeks. this attracted me a lot. during that time I was doing gamble trades on my private account, losing pretty much all of it. when it was deeply in the red, I had to leave the bank but shortly after, I was allowed to start trading in a Japanese bank. I was very lucky here, since I was allowed to gain knowledge through learning by doing.

q: did the bank give you any mentor?
a: not, I didn't have one. in the beginning I was exchanging ideas with the chief trader Ajiasaka, who was constantly profitable. he sometimes even hedged the positions of his boss, when he thought that his boss was wrong. I had many conversations about market psychology, which proved to be very helpful, especially after bad losing days.

q: how was your trading back then? have you been constantly profitable from the very beginning?
a: I was doing 100 - 150 round turns a day after a short time... I had no losing month with the first 3 years of my trading. later on with bigger position sizes i took occasional hits, especially after EUREX allowed terminals in the US and big players like Harris Brumfield / Chicago were entering the field.

q: there is a saying that every trader has to completely blow up his account at least once before he can become successful. what did you learn out of it?
a: like I earlier said, my private account saw some bad times during my apprentice in the bank, although I must admit, that back then I had absolutely no idea that there was something like 'risk-management'.
later on I found 7-digit losses to be cumbering. on day I had a blackout and after losing 2,5 million � I was seriously thinking about stopping. I still had enough capital left to live without having to worry about financial issues and i just wouldn't want to take those psychological hits anymore. after taking 4 weeks off, I regained my motivation and returned in the ring. I was able to make up the loss in a relatively short period of time, so that I came out stronger than before.

q: has this changed the views of the market in a way?
a: with the experience of bigger losing days coupled with good phases right afterwards, I'm not so sensible for losing days anymore. I know that I can make it back. this has lead to being able to switch off the screens on a day with medium/small losses more easily, instead of forcing the way back into positive territory.

q: what are your strengths as a world-class trader and where are the differences between you and other traders?
a: it's the ability to get more aggressive in winning phases, taking bigger risks, and scaling back in losing times. this is against human nature. the best thing is to have somebody around who is neutral to trading, that switches the terminals off, when a certain loss level has been reached for the day.

q: you are known as a order book-scalper, could you please explaining to our readers what you are doing and what your strategies look like? what is your tactic?
a: it's some kind of market making where you place buy and sell orders simultaneously, making very short-term trading decisions b/c of certain events in the order book (level2). for example, I usually have lots of orders in different markets at the same time, pretty close to the last traded price. the resulting trades are usually a zero sum game, but I get a pretty good feeling for what is going on and then ultimately can make a decision for a larger trade.

q: how long are you usually in a position?
a: since I do trend plays very seldom and actually scalp the market, i constantly get fills in different markets on both sides which can cause constantly changing positions for hours. sometimes i change my opinion several times within a couple of minutes, which is not pretty hard for me, since I'm only looking for the next 3-5 ticks.

q: during your professional career, have you always been a scalper or did you try other strategies (momentum/swing) as well?
a: yes, I have always been a scalper, but I am adjusting my strategies to different market situations all the time. on volatile days I of course have less orders in the market and do more 'single trades', although I usually hold them only for a couple of seconds.

q: your strategies only work on electronic exchanges?
a: yes, b/c you cannot handle that much orders in a pit, looking for counterparties and so on. computer exchanges grant fast order flow and are not as easy to manipulate.

q: as a scalper, are you trying to run stops?
a: well, yes, but because of the increase of liquidity in the last couple of years, the fast spikes caused by stops are not happening that often anymore. apart from that, that stops often are not where you would suppose them to be, because the other market participants are not silly either or learned their lesson in the past.

q: what role plays risk-management in your trading?
a: i set daily goals for my p&l, whereas the most important thing is the stopping limit, the maximum loss I take, before I switch off the screens. my biggest positions are 5 digit number of contracts. I don't use any specific money-management rules.

q: what are you doing when a position goes against you? are you using stop-loss orders?
a: I strictly close my position when they start going against me. with bigger positions this is not that easy, because I move the market against me, which could cause other traders to get in the same situation like me, which could accelerate the move. however, most of the time I am able to make some of the losses up, b/c I know what caused that move and therefore take the opposite position.

q: why don't you have any problems with closing out the position and even taking the opposite direction? shouldn't a trader stick to his opinion?
a: no, definitely not. an analyst or some kind of guru has to stick to it, but as a trader you should have no opinion. the more opinion you have, the harder gets it to get out of a losing position.

q: what role plays market psychology?
a: I constantly try to read the psychology of the market and base my decisions on it.

q: how do you handle distracting thoughts and emotions?
a: when it gets really bad - taking a cold shower or jumping in a cold swimming pool.

q: how do you prepare for the trading day? do you follow any routines or do you take it as it comes?
a: before the open I check all the economic reports that are about to be released, speeches of central bankers - simply anything that could move the market. then I try to define important levels in the markets I trade. I do this through my own analysis and through reading analyst commentaries. that's how I get a picture of the market and its important levels. I am not interested in opinions of other market participants as this would influence my own opinion.

q: any kind of mental preparation?
a: nothing specific. actually I am motivated all the time...I see trading more as a sporting challenge and try to erase the thought of the money.

q: how many hours do you spend in front of your screens?
a: usually 5 hours, that's when i trade actively...in case of special events i can be up to 11 hours

q: isn't it hard to spend that much time in front of your pc's? how do you stay concentrated for such a long time?
a: that is what my Japanese colleagues asked themselves as well...well I take it as some kind of game where i forget the time. therefore the real troubles are more physical (eyes) than psychological.

q: what do you do to calm down / relax?
a: i do lots of sports and take lots of vacations.

q: what equipment do you use?
a: MD-trader from TT, Reuters, Bloomberg, CQG and a USD-squawkbox.

q: why a USD-squawk box?
a: i use it because �/$ had some effects on the interest rates over the last couple of months. those effects change, right now it influences oil prices and the DAX.

q: what timeframes are you using on your charts?
a: usually 5- - 30-min charts for trendlines and indicators. I prefer p&f charts because they give me a clearer view on patterns (triple tops). for indicators I like the CCI because it also shows the volatility of the markets.

q: do you think is it possible for a single player to manipulate the market?
a: no, in my opinion a single player cannot influence the market around the clock. there are always several big players in the market. take the BUND for example - there are one million contracts traded a day. when a trend starts out of the blue with only slight pullbacks, I could trade against it, but with no effect. I couldn't stop the market from going up, because there would be more money needed that I could bring in. apart from that, so-called 'Analytics' computerized scalpers have made it tougher for me lately. as far as I know they are analyzing the behavior in the order book and create a fully automated system. since they act in several markets at the same time, I think these computer freak come from the fully automated arbitrage- and spread-trading.

q: what has one to do if he wants to become a scalper?
a: he has to watch the order book for a very long time.
 
FALLOW THE TRADING RULES

1. Always have a trading plan

Winning traders diligently maintain charts and keep aside some hours for market analysis. Every evening a winning trader updates his notebook and writes his strategy for the next day. Winning traders have a sense of the market's main trend. They identify the strongest sectors of the market and then the strongest stocks in those sectors. They know the level they are going to enter at and approximate targets for the anticipated move.

For example, I am willing to hold till the market is acting right. Once the market is unable to hold certain levels and breaks crucial supports, I book profits. Again, this depends on the type of market I am dealing with.

In a strong up trend, I want the market to throw me out of a profitable trade.

In a mild up trend, I am a little more cautious and try to book profits at the first sign of weakness.

In a choppy market, not only do I trade the lightest, I book profits while the market is still moving in my direction.

Good technical traders do not worry or debate about the news flow; they go by what the market is doing.

2. Avoid overtrading

Overtrading is the single biggest malaise of most traders. A disciplined trader is always ready to trade light when the market turns choppy and even not trade if there are no trades on the horizon.

For example, I trade full steam only when I see a trending market and reduce my trading stakes when I am not confident of the expected move. I reduce my trade even more if the market is stuck in a choppy mode with very small swings.

A disciplined trader knows when to build positions and step on the gas and when to trade light and he can only make this assessment after he is clear about his analysis of the market and has a trading plan at the beginning of every trading day.

3. Don't get unnerved by losses

A winning trader is always cautious; he knows each trade is just another trade, so he always uses money management techniques. He never over leverages and always has set-ups and rules which he follows religiously.

He takes losses in his stride and tries to understand why the market moved against him. Often you get important trading lessons from your losses.

4. Try to capture the large market moves

Novice traders often book profits too quickly because they want to enjoy the winning feeling. Sometimes even on the media one hears things like, "You never lose your shirt booking profits." I believe novice traders actually lose their account equity quickly because they do not book their losses quickly enough.

Knowledgeable traders on the other hand, will also lose their trading equity -- though slowly -- if they are satisfied in booking small profits all the time. By doing that the only person who can grow rich is your broker. And this does happen because, inevitably, you will have periods of drawdowns when you are not in sync with the market. You can never cover a 15-20% drawdown if you keep booking small profits. The best you will do is be at breakeven at the end of the day, which is not the goal of successful trading.

A trading account that is not growing is not sustainable. Thus when you believe you have entered into a large move, you need to ride it out till the market stops acting right. Traders with a lot of knowledge of technical analysis, but little experience, often get into the quagmire of following very small targets, believing the market to be overbought at every small rise -- and uniformly so in all markets.

Such traders are unable to make money because they are too smart for their own good. They forget to see the phase of the market. Not only do these traders book profits early, sometimes they even take short positions believing that a correction is "due". Markets do not generally correct when corrections are "due".

The best policy is to use a trailing stop loss and let the market run when it wants to run. The disciplined trader understands this and keeps stop losses wide enough so that he is balanced between staying in the move as well as protecting his equity. Capturing a few large moves every year is what really makes worthwhile trading profits.

5. Always keeps learning

You cannot learn trading in a day or even a few weeks, sometimes not even in months. Successful traders keep reading all the new research on technical analysis they can get their hands on. They also read a number of books every month about techniques, about trading psychology and about other successful traders and how they manage their accounts.

I often like to think about traders as jihadis; unless there is a fire in the belly, unless there is a strong will and commitment to win, it is impossible to win consistently in the market.

6. Always be alert to opportunities of making some money with less risky strategies as well

Futures trading, for example, is a very risky business. The best of chartists and the best of traders sometimes fail. Sure, it gives the highest returns but these may not be consistent -- and the drawdowns can be large.

Traders should always remember that no matter how good your analysis is, sometimes the market is not willing to oblige. In such times the 4-5% that can be earned in covered calls or futures and cash arbitrage comes in very handy. It improves the long term sustainability of a trader and keeps your profit register ringing.

Traders must learn to live with lower risk and lower return at certain times in the market, in order to protect and enlarge their capital.

Disciplined traders have reasonable risk and return expectations and are open to using less risky and less exciting strategies of making money, which helps them tide over rough periods in the markets.

7. Treat trading as a business and keep a positive attitude

Trading can be an expensive adventure sport. It should be treated as a business and should be very profit oriented. Successful traders review their performance at regular intervals and try to identify causes of both superior and inferior performance.

The focus should be on consistent profits rather than erratic large profits and losses. Also, trading performance should not be made a judgement on an individual; rather, it should be considered a consequence of right or wrong actions.

Disciplined traders are able to identify when they are out of sync with the market and need to reduce position size, or keep away altogether. Successful trading is like dancing in rhythm with the market.

Unsuccessful traders often cut down on all other expenses but refuse to see what might be wrong with their trading methods. Denial is a costly attitude in trading. If you see that a particular trade is not working the way you had expected, reduce or eliminate your positions and see what is going on.

Most disciplined and successful traders are very humble. Humility is a virtue that traders should learn on their own, else the market makes sure that they do. Ego and an "I can do no wrong" attitude in good times can lead to severe drawdowns in the long term.

Also, bad days in trading should be accepted as cheerfully as the good ones. So disciplined traders maintain composure whether they have made a profit or not on a particular day and avoid mood swings.

A good way to do this is to also participate in activities other than trading and let the mind rest so that it is fresh for the next trading day.

8. Never blame the market for your reverses

Disciplined traders do not blame the market, the government, the companies or anyone else, conveniently excluding themselves, for their losses. The market gives ample opportunities to traders to make money. It is only the trader's fault if he fails to recognise them.

Also, the market has various phases. It is overbought sometimes and oversold at other times. It is trending some of the time and choppy at others. It is for a trader to take maximum advantage of favourable market conditions and keep away from unfavourable ones.

With the help of derivatives, it is now possible to make some money in all kinds of markets. So the trader needs to look for opportunities all the time.

To my mind, the important keys to making long term money in trading are:

Keeping losses small. Remember all losses start small.

Ride as many big moves as possible.
Avoid overtrading.
Never try to impose your will on the market.
It is impossible to practice all of the above perfectly. However, if you can practice all of the above with some degree of success, improvement in trading performance can be dramatic.
9. Keep a cushion

If new traders are lucky to come into a market during a roaring bull phase, they sometimes think that the market is the best place to put all one's money. But successful and seasoned traders know that if the market starts acting differently in the future, which it surely will, profits will stop pouring in and there might even be periods of losses.

So do not commit more than a certain amount to the market at any given point of time. Take profits from your broker whenever you have them in your trading account and stow them away in a separate account.

I say this because the market is like a deep and big well. No matter how much money you put in it, it can all vanish. So by having an account where you accumulate profits during good times, it helps you when markets turn unfavourable.

This also makes drawdowns less stressful as you have the cushion of previously earned profits. Trading is about walking a tightrope most times. Make sure you have enough cushion if you fall.

10. Understand that there is no holy grail in the market

There is no magical key to the Indian or any other stock market. If there were, investment banks that spend billions of dollars on research would snap it up. Investing software and trading books by themselves can't make you enormously wealthy.

They can only give you tools and skills that you can learn to apply. And, finally, there is no free lunch; every trading penny has to be earned. I would recommend that each trader identify his own style, his own patterns, his own horizon and the set-ups that he is most comfortable with and practice them to perfection.

You need only to be able to trade very few patterns to make consistent profits in the market.

No gizmos can make a difference to your trading. There are no signals that are always 100% correct, so stop looking for them.

Focus, instead, on percentage trades, trying to catch large moves and keeping your methodology simple. What needs constant improving are discipline and your trading psychology.

At end of the day, money is not made by how complicated-looking your analysis is but whether it gets you in the right trade at the right time. Over-analysis can, in fact, lead to paralysis and that is death for a trader. If you can't pull the trigger at the right time, then all your analysis and knowledge is a waste.
 

DanPickUp

Well-Known Member
"The single largest and most successful individual futures trader on planet Earth" makes his money by hitting others stops.
This is a really bad example of an trading genius.Here when everyone is searching for a edge, u wont find an better edge than those order book details found in level 2 .If those data is available to me wont my grandmother start trading from tomm and make billions.
Don't we all try to hit other stops? and if we hit them don't we try to be stopped out by bigger fishes or whales?

Now how can we do that? :)

That has nothing to do with Paul Rotten. That only has to do with knowledge of strategies.

Sorry to be very directly.

Good trading

DanPickUp
 

DanPickUp

Well-Known Member
Even a robber breaking the vault of a jewellery store reqs certain strategy & skill.you be direct or indirect i am not concerned with it and u can keep idolising such guys ,for me this situation is similar to a boxing match were one of the boxer is fighting without the boxing gloves.
Do you have boxing gloves?
 

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