Mini Nifty futures - Brokerage, Margins and other issues

pakatil · #11 24th June 2008, 12:30 AM

@fast_rizwaan,

BTW I forgot. RollOver is nothing but a glorified term to use close the open position of Current month and intiating a fresh position of the next month. Hence no special charges for RollOver.

Cheers
PAKatil

fast_rizwaan · #12 24th June 2008, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pakatil

@fast_rizwaan,

I am trading with Religare since 2 Years.

1.Not sure about percentages, About Rs.13K~ of Margin is blocked in MiNifty Trade. It keeps changing day to day depending on Market volatality. It used to be 17 - 18 K abount a month back.

2.AFIK, there is no Intraday trades. MiNifty is valid till the settlement day. It is your prerogative to close it, be it Intraday or after a few days. Any SL orders are valid for the Day only.

3.Today I Sold @ 4280 (85600) & Covered @ 4250 (8500). Brokerage is as follows :

a.Brokerage @ 0.025% = 42.65
b.Service tax @ 12.36% = 05.27
c.OtherCharges @ 0.0043% = 7.34
d.STT @ 0.017% = 14.00 (Actually 14.55, but rounded off)

e.Total = 69.26

Cheers
PAKatil

thanks PAKatil, One more question:

i) Do we need to pay brokerage+taxes for both sides (buying and selling) in futures like delivery trades or it is only on Selling side (one side) like intraday in equity?

thanks to everyone in advance..

pakatil · #13 24th June 2008, 09:18 AM

@fast_rizwaan,

Yes, like Delivery trades both the sides are charged. Please have a closer look at the example given. Charges are for 170600 (Buying 85000 & Selling 85600).

Cheers

Muktha · #14 24th June 2008, 09:40 PM

Dear Boarders

I have sold 1 lot Mini nifty of current month (Jun.08) at 4415 couple of days back and still holding the short position. As current month futures expires on 26th Jun.08, what happens to my short position, if I do not square off the position on expiry day?

Kindly explain the implications of not closing the future position (short) on expiry day.

Thanks in advance

columbus · #15 24th June 2008, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fast_rizwaan

columbus, please explain:

a. What is the Derivative monthly contract brokerage?
In Equity intraday is 0.03 and Delivery 0.30.
Is there different brokerage for intraday and delivery in futures, like in equity?

b. please see the attachment, I don't know how to carry-forward my position, what is the method, the "buy/sell dialog" is not giving any hint for rolling over either.

And good to see that Stoploss/Sell AMO orders work for futures

a. Generally it is 0.03%.The difference between INTRADAY and CARRYFORWARD futues is that the way they attract EXPOSURE margin.Please refer to my earlier message in the same thread. Obviously INTRADAY futures attract less exposure.

b. To be frank there is nothing called ROLL-OVER on any of your transactions.If you have a BUY position ,you sell it and they BUY the same position NEXT MONTH.The entire operation is called ROLLOVER.

pakatil · #16 24th June 2008, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by columbus

The difference between INTRADAY and CARRYFORWARD futues is that the way they attract EXPOSURE margin.Please refer to my earlier message in the same thread. Obviously INTRADAY futures attract less exposure.

I thought Futures Open Position will remain active till Expiry Day unless Closed earlier. Hence no such thing as intraday or carryforward Margins. I have carried Open Positions many times and Religare has charged same Exposure Margin. Margins can change if Volatality varies. But that is a different matter.

Cheers

columbus · #17 25th June 2008, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pakatil

I thought Futures Open Position will remain active till Expiry Day unless Closed earlier. Hence no such thing as intraday or carryforward Margins. I have carried Open Positions many times and Religare has charged same Exposure Margin. Margins can change if Volatality varies. But that is a different matter.

Cheers

I trade in both SHAREKHAN and KARVY. In sharekhan there is nothing called Intraday futures.But in KARVY ,you find INTRADAY FUTURES.As I mentioned earlier the exposure margin in case of Intraday futures is less.Before placing an order one has to mention whether this transaction is Intraday or Carry forward.If sufficient margin is there in account,at any time the Intraday futures can be converted to CarryForward.I think these are different from one brokerage house to another.Normally Futures expires on last thrusday of the month.

columbus · #18 25th June 2008, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muktha

Dear Boarders

I have sold 1 lot Mini nifty of current month (Jun.08) at 4415 couple of days back and still holding the short position. As current month futures expires on 26th Jun.08, what happens to my short position, if I do not square off the position on expiry day?

Kindly explain the implications of not closing the future position (short) on expiry day.

Thanks in advance

Well , I have the same doubt in the beginning. Perhaps the definition of FUTURE and OPTION will clear your doubt forever.

"......A futures contract gives the holder the obligation to buy or sell, which differs from an options contract, which gives the holder the right, but not the obligation. In other words, the owner of an options contract may or may not exercise the contract. Whereas in a futures contract, both parties of a "futures contract" must fulfill the contract on the settlement date......"

In case if an option if you have some open positions then they will be expired AUTOMATICALLY .But in case of Futures they need to be CLOSED.So please close your positions before exipiry.

fast_rizwaan · #19 25th June 2008, 10:47 PM

thanks columbus and pakatil,

One more doubt with rolling over (selling this month's contract and buying next month's contract):

Code:

Instru - Undlyng - Expiry Date - High Price - Low Price  - Prev Close - Last Price - Number of contracts traded  - Turnover in Rs. Lakhs - Underlying Value
FUTIDX - MINIFTY - 26JUN2008   - 4263.00    - 4080.00    - 4171.70    - 4245.05    - 34508                       - 28928.75              - 4251.50
FUTIDX - MINIFTY - 31JUL2008   - 4223.00    - 4050.05    - 4142.90    - 4206.20    - 31001                       - 25775.97              - 4251.50
FUTIDX - MINIFTY - 28AUG2008   - 4219.00    - 4025.00    - 4141.10    - 4204.05    - 1072                        - 890.66                - 4251.50

Please observe the difference of last price of June26 and July31 Contracts, the difference is 4245.05 - 4206.20 = 38.85.

If I sell my June26 contract and buy the July31 contract, what happens? do I get the 38.85 as profit from today (before june expiry) onwards, or I will get M-T-M from 27th June (start of July future). Please enlighten. and many thanks for guiding me

ravalsb · #20 25th June 2008, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by columbus

In case if an option if you have some open positions then they will be expired AUTOMATICALLY .But in case of Futures they need to be CLOSED.So please close your positions before exipiry.

Hi Columbus, All Futures and Options (ATM and ITM) open positions for the current month will be automatically settled on expiry.

Regards