Path to Consistency

fnoQ

Active Member
Subhadip bro , taken this from zerodha varsity , here the answer lies for delta neutral startegy , but this is theory only , implementing in practical is the hard work ?!


""Got your point. I’m going to elaborate a bit for the benefit of other readers..

When you initiate a straddle(both long and short), it is very clear the call is on volatility, and not on the direction of the market. .

When you short the straddle, it implies that you expect volatility to reduce. In other words, you plan to profit from a fall in volatility, and not from a directional movement. Now, in order to fully exploit this point of view, you need to ensure your position is always hedged to directional risk.

When you initiate the position by shorting ATM options, needless to say you are directionally hedged…but when market makes big move, you are no longer delta hedged. Quoting from your own example….

When you initiate the position when mkts are at 7700,

7700 CE delta= -0.5
7700 PE delta = +0.5
Position Delta = 0

However, when the markets falls to 7500 (a 200 point downward drift)..

7700 CE delta = – 0.1 (since its OTM)
7700 PE delta = +0.9 (since its ITM)
Position Delta = +0.8

Notice, with a delta of +0.8, the position is no longer delta neutral…which means along with the risk of volatility, you are also exposed to directional risk.

This also means whenever you initiate a delta neural position, it is neutral at THAT point in time…as and when the markets moves, the delta varies, and hence the position’s delta also varies. The trader has to continuously monitor the position;s delta and ensure they always add up to zero.

You suggested a short gut when markets fall to 7500, lets see how the deltas add up..

Spot = 7500

Short 7700 PE = delta of + 0.9 (as its ITM)
Short 7300 CE = delta of – 0.9 (as its OTM)
Total position delta = 0

(please note, I’ve just approximated the delta’s for ease of explanation)

Clearly, the position is delta neutral…and you can continue doing this, to ensure you are delta neutral. However, there are three things come to my mind..

1) Your costs increase as you pile on more number of trades
2) It would be very hard to terminate the positions anytime before expiry
3) Your estimate on volatility has to be accurate. If the Volatility does not cool off as expected, you may end up making a loss

For something like this to work in your favor, I’d suggest you initiate the position towards the 2nd half of the series. With this..

1) You will benefit from time decay
2) If you are right on volatility,then towards the 2nd half you will have an added advantage of decreasing volatility, and time (see the graph of Vol vs time in the previous article)
3) Premiums will be lower, but so would be the stress on position

Also, from my experience I can tell you that trades such as these are best done before events such as budget, quarterly results, corporate announcements etc. This is when volatility shoots up, and premiums swell.

Lastly, one of the best ways to play volatility is by initiating trades based on Volatility Arbitrage using dynamic delta hedging technique. I’d suggest you explore this as well.

This turned out to be a post within a post, but as long as it helps

Good luck. ""
 
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Subhadip

Well-Known Member
Posting the same question to Subha Bro:

Suppose on my NF Intra Multi lot I am trading with 12 lots of NF future, my RR is 2 (8 and 16 points).

If I have to switch to options (Long only, CE or PE) from Future, - how many Lots I need, considering I book loss/profit (w.r.t Future movement at same scale 8 or 16).

I am sure it does not work in this way specially near to expiry where an ATM becoming a OTM even by 8 points will bleed or if IV is changed. But still is there any tool or excel I can calculate this?
Use VOLHEDGE.
 

Subhadip

Well-Known Member
Posting the same question to Subha Bro:

Suppose on my NF Intra Multi lot I am trading with 12 lots of NF future, my RR is 2 (8 and 16 points).

If I have to switch to options (Long only, CE or PE) from Future, - how many Lots I need, considering I book loss/profit (w.r.t Future movement at same scale 8 or 16).

I am sure it does not work in this way specially near to expiry where an ATM becoming a OTM even by 8 points will bleed or if IV is changed. But still is there any tool or excel I can calculate this?
ATM call and put have Delta of 0.5.

So to balance future which has Delta of one. U have to double the quantity in option
 

Subhadip

Well-Known Member
Subhadip bro , taken this from zerodha varsity , here the answer lies for delta neutral startegy , but this is theory only , implementing in practical is the hard work ?!


""Got your point. I’m going to elaborate a bit for the benefit of other readers..

When you initiate a straddle(both long and short), it is very clear the call is on volatility, and not on the direction of the market. .

When you short the straddle, it implies that you expect volatility to reduce. In other words, you plan to profit from a fall in volatility, and not from a directional movement. Now, in order to fully exploit this point of view, you need to ensure your position is always hedged to directional risk.

When you initiate the position by shorting ATM options, needless to say you are directionally hedged…but when market makes big move, you are no longer delta hedged. Quoting from your own example….

When you initiate the position when mkts are at 7700,

7700 CE delta= -0.5
7700 PE delta = +0.5
Position Delta = 0

However, when the markets falls to 7500 (a 200 point downward drift)..

7700 CE delta = – 0.1 (since its OTM)
7700 PE delta = +0.9 (since its ITM)
Position Delta = +0.8

Notice, with a delta of +0.8, the position is no longer delta neutral…which means along with the risk of volatility, you are also exposed to directional risk.

This also means whenever you initiate a delta neural position, it is neutral at THAT point in time…as and when the markets moves, the delta varies, and hence the position’s delta also varies. The trader has to continuously monitor the position;s delta and ensure they always add up to zero.

You suggested a short gut when markets fall to 7500, lets see how the deltas add up..

Spot = 7500

Short 7700 PE = delta of + 0.9 (as its ITM)
Short 7300 CE = delta of – 0.9 (as its OTM)
Total position delta = 0

(please note, I’ve just approximated the delta’s for ease of explanation)

Clearly, the position is delta neutral…and you can continue doing this, to ensure you are delta neutral. However, there are three things come to my mind..

1) Your costs increase as you pile on more number of trades
2) It would be very hard to terminate the positions anytime before expiry
3) Your estimate on volatility has to be accurate. If the Volatility does not cool off as expected, you may end up making a loss

For something like this to work in your favor, I’d suggest you initiate the position towards the 2nd half of the series. With this..

1) You will benefit from time decay
2) If you are right on volatility,then towards the 2nd half you will have an added advantage of decreasing volatility, and time (see the graph of Vol vs time in the previous article)
3) Premiums will be lower, but so would be the stress on position ������

Also, from my experience I can tell you that trades such as these are best done before events such as budget, quarterly results, corporate announcements etc. This is when volatility shoots up, and premiums swell.

Lastly, one of the best ways to play volatility is by initiating trades based on Volatility Arbitrage using dynamic delta hedging technique. I’d suggest you explore this as well.

This turned out to be a post within a post, but as long as it helps ������

Good luck. ""
Calander spread is also good in getting benefit of Vega.
 

fnoQ

Active Member
Calander spread is also good in getting benefit of Vega.
ok bhai , (1) in this 9200 straddle we are getting profit from theta and vega both ?

(2) can we take 9200 ce , pe sell only without 9400 ce long and 9000 pe short at first and will take options ( ce , pe ) long when needed ? , what is the drawback in this , if we take both shorts given 33 pts gain now ( 33 pts decayed ) but in longs ( 9400 ce , 9000 pe ) we got - 20 pts so net 13 pts gain now , (as of today) .

(3) if in this position theta 41 means , reduce by 41 pts if no changes in other greeks , and vega -344 means in one working day 344 pts will add if volatilty increase by 1 % , also which volatlity increase should be taken for account , NF IV or these 4 options IV ?
 

travi

Well-Known Member
IV has shot up with todays mkt moves.
For BN 20-APR Expiry, good value to sell the 21500PE and 22200CE.
This is a short strangle, since IV is around 20%, 16%
there are no long legs to hedge Vega.
Even though we witnessed a 500pt point fall in 2.5 days, 21500 proved to be a great support and position exited with 31-6.5=24.5pts

A similar 0.2D (Coining my strategies name :p) which was initiated yest
BN 22500CE@72/IV 12.11/0.22D & BN20500CE/83/IV 17.25/0.1D 25May Expiry.
 

Subhadip

Well-Known Member
Spot = 7500

Short 7700 PE = delta of + 0.9 (as its ITM)
Short 7300 CE = delta of – 0.9 (as its OTM)
Total position delta = 0
I think both are ITM..

also at expiry, ITM CE & PE will be reduced by 10 points each due to STT, so good benefit..
 

travi

Well-Known Member
My RD position closed now..
47 K with around 6 L... around 7.83% in this month...

This was my RD
:thumb: Nice
Yest's 0.2D is trading at 137 pts today, 13pt overnight :D (init 150.2 credit)
IV tends to be higher on expiry day, best time to take fresh positions.
Prev month gain is 6.3% on mine. [that's on higher margin % then urs]
156pt credit is now 14.2 pts :p for 27-APR expiry
 

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