Does posting of different methods of trading on tradeji reduces it profitability

#21
Makijaz

Very uncordial site on the subject. Among the many pages of effete information on this national, this locality contains a absolutely absorbing content.
 

DanPickUp

Well-Known Member
#22
Hi

Giving working trading systems to the public is mostly done, when they are no more profitable or getting old. One of the best examples is the turtle system. Most of us have gone through it and have learned with it, but who trades this system today ?

Other systems, which may gain some profit and are posted in open forums are in general second hand systems or systems, which are not 100% well proved.

I ask you frankly : If you have a system and you know it makes huge profit, would you give it away just like that ?

Yes, you can ! But then we would have to ask you the reason, why you do so ?

Do you make more money by selling and teaching this system or what is the reason to act like you do ?

If a working system or what ever is made public, it will not work successfully for a certain time. Why ? Big boys will hear about it and they will place there orders in that way, that the users of this system will start to fail.

One of the best examples of that is Don Fishback. He published many years ago, how professional option traders in the states used the standard deviations for there trading. After it was open to the public, stdv went up to four, five and even six and seven and all the onces which though, they know now the holy grail of professional option trading, where just kicked of the markets. The big boys changed the rules in secret and the retail traders stud there like stupids.

Today, the stdv is just one of many tools you can use to trade, but it has no more the same value it had, when it was not public knowledge.

Tc

DanPickUp

Edit : My thoughts and my experience is from trading outside India. CME in the States. This is way I write like the above post and in other posts. I am clear, that you in India could / will / and do have some times very different ideas on different subjects and so do not take my post as absolute.

With respect to your culture

DP
 
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#23
I have tested a lot of systems and posted a few on this forum even. Somehow after 2 years of the relentless search for the perfect combination of systems, i have to admit that no system is perfect. every trade has a equal chance of Sl getting hit and only after admitting this, i could chuck away all the crap i have been accumulating over the years. I have posted the whole collection (over 20 K afl) on the amibroker section and deleted them from my own machine.

Every trading system is either a fade the extreme or buy the retracement. Market is either trending or is sideways. A pure trend following system will get jacked real bad on sideways days. Trade location is the key to a good success rate. A buy just above a known support level has a higher success probability than a buy just below a known resistance level.

A simple trend line or a horizontal support / resistance line can tell you more about the chart than a combination of indicators. On a real choppy day, it is best to avoid trading all together then getting your stoploss hit on both direction.

Saint's method is by far one of the best trend following method i have seen. It has amazing money management rules and all you need is one good trade to offset 7-8 bad trades. One cant fault such a system simply because it requires a lot of patience and one has to develop the ability to ride (and build ) the winners.

Bigger time frame players dont really care about systems discussed on forums. When some big hot shot is buying 10 cr of SBI shares, he doesnt plan to exit them by 3.30 that day. He is buying them because he feels there is value in SBI in the long term. He will wait patiently for days for a pre-determined level before he starts accumulating. His presence can be seen on the chart in the form of tails on the candles.

Trading is all about logic and ability to align with the market's intention...
Linkon,

I couldn't understand this, "His presence can be seen on the chart in the form of tails on the candles. " Will you please explain?

Rahul
 

4xpipcounter

Well-Known Member
#24
Rahul, this is what you highlighted, "Bigger time frame players dont really care about systems discussed on forums."

The statement is true. Tails on candles is the thing that does not matter. I've been saying for quite a few weeks now that the CHF/JPY is getting ready for a longer term reversal that will take the pair to 91.42 and then 90.04. This is going to take several weeks to develop, and maybe even months. The whole idea is to pick an optimal entry point, which is along the lines what Linkon was talking about. On the trip south, someone who entered that trade does not care about what is being talked about in these forums. There are also going to be many tails on daily and weekly candles on the way to that point. Bottom line is find the entry and hold and hod on until you get to that point.

Let me give you an additional perspective. Many traders in this forum, I am sure hold trades for 1-3 days. Consider that 15-minute candles are going to have tails. If you enter and plan on holding for 1-3 days, you do not care what the 15-min candles look like.

I'd also like to add an additional tidbit to what Linkon mentioned. Longer term traders are probably more experienced traders. The more experienced traders, regardless how long they hold trades, do not care what is said in these forums. They are here for other reasons, which might include adding to their knowledge base, helping others, or just engaging in good dialogue with other traders. But longer term traders, as well as all other experienced, seasoned traders don't care what is being said about who is trading what and going what direction.


Linkon,

I couldn't understand this, "His presence can be seen on the chart in the form of tails on the candles. " Will you please explain?

Rahul
 
#25
Hello Dhiraj ji

I registered with Traderji.com around 10 days back and have been reading threads and posts from veteran traders, looking for a good and almost fool proof technique to do profitable day trading for a living.

I have dabbled in swing trading, for a year with some losses and left it for 2 years. At that time, I did not do due diligence of studying and understanding the details and also (most important) learn from veteran traders.



I did minutely learn the 2652 way of trading which you had shared with all (way back in Dec 2008-Jan 2009 time frame). I would first of all thank you for the good heartedness to share your indigenous method with all, God will definitely reward you (and he might be doing currently too) for this noble act. I did paper trade based on that and I had one scenario which I wanted to share with you and get your expert advise on:



Scenario:

------------------------

Today (31st October 2013), At around 10:16AM, i looked at the High and Low of ICICIBANK on NSE (high and low from 9:15



AM to 10:15 AM), the High was at 9:43AM and i took value of Close =1101.75 and the Low was at 10:08 AM and i took value



of Low = 1089.3, the Previous High (30th Oct 2013) = 1106.9 and Previous Low = 1079.4, Difference of Prev. High - Prev. Low



= 27.5. I placed a Sell Order with (Sell = 1089.85, Buy = 1084.41, Stop Loss = 1100.74) and a simultaneous Buy Order with (Buy = 1101.2, Sell = 1106.7, Stop Loss = 1090.19)



As you had explained,



Sell Buy Stop Loss Buy Sell Stop Loss
1101.75 -11.9 = 1089.85 0.5% below 1089.85 = 1084.41 1% above 1089.85 = 1100.74 1089.3 + 11.9 = 1101.2 0.5% above 1101.2 = 1106.70 1% below 1101.2 = 1090.19
RESELL
Sell Buy Stop Loss
1101.75 -11.9 = 1089.85 0.8% below 1089.85 = 1081.13 1% above 1089.85 = 1100.74






Result: I placed both the orders (Capital amount 8,00,000 ) at 10:25AM (as I took about 10 minutes to do the calculations and enter the Sell and Buy orders into software system) and then I waited. At 11:06AM, my Sell Order was executed (the Close price at 11:06AM was 1088.65), so i sold a total of 734 shares (800000/1089.85 = 734). I cancelled the Buy order immediately and waited.At 12:53 PM, the Stop Loss was triggered and i sold the 734 shares for a loss at 807943.16, so the net loss is 807943.16-800000 = 7943.16. Then again i put a ReSell Order (Sell=1089.85, Buy = 1081.13, Stop Loss Buy - 1100.74) at 1:00pm (took around 6-7 minutes for entering order into system) Then again i put a ReSell Order with values but the Sell Price is never reached till end of day(3:30PM)



Please answer my following questions and help me in this case:



1. Are all the values correct, which i used and for placing the Sell and Buy Orders ?



2. It takes a lot of time (after 10:15AM) to do the calculations and place the orders, is it to be done manually or is there some automated way ?



3. When i have a loss in a Sell Order(Stop Loss Triggered), then said i should place a Resell order; in such a case do i also have to place the opposite trade also (Re Buy order?) Also, When i have a loss in a Buy Order(Stop Loss Triggered), then said i should place a Re Buy order; in such a case do i also have to place the opposite trade also (Re Sell order?)



4. I am getting all my values and data from the NSE website chart, the URL of which is below http://nseindia.com/ChartApp/install/charts/mainpage.jsp



Is this the right chart (1 min chart) which i should be looking at for get my figures?



5. In the above mentioned 1 minute chart, for a particular point of time there is a Open, High, Low, Close. Which value should i use (For eg. at 9:43 AM in the URL chart, it shows Open = 1100.2, High = 1101.8, Low = 1100.0, Close = 1101.75), which value out of these 4 values should i take as High between 9:15AM and 10:15AM )



6. This is a basic question which might sound silly (i have not yet got my Zerodha Trading A/C activated so i do not have the order entry screens in front of me and i am forgetting quite a bit from my past experience). If i take the example of the Sell Order (Sell, Buy, Stop Loss) first i place a Sell order and while placing the Buy Order (within the Buy Order screen itself ) do we have option of setting/giving value to Stop Loss? That means the Buy value (1084.41) and Stop Loss Value (1100.74) can be entered as part of one order ?

So does that mean, at 10:15 AM i went ahead and placed 2 orders as part of Short Sell (Sell and Buy (with inbuilt option for Stop Loss) and 2 orders as part of Long Buy (Buy and Sell (with inbuilt option for Stop Loss)). So in total there are 4 seperate orders which i have to place at 10:15AM ? Is that correct ?
 
#26
Hello Dhiraj ji

I registered with Traderji.com around 10 days back and have been reading threads and posts from veteran traders, looking for a good and almost fool proof technique to do profitable day trading for a living.

I have dabbled in swing trading, for a year with some losses and left it for 2 years. At that time, I did not do due diligence of studying and understanding the details and also (most important) learn from veteran traders.



I did minutely learn the 2652 way of trading which you had shared with all (way back in Dec 2008-Jan 2009 time frame). I would first of all thank you for the good heartedness to share your indigenous method with all, God will definitely reward you (and he might be doing currently too) for this noble act. I did paper trade based on that and I had one scenario which I wanted to share with you and get your expert advise on:



Scenario:

------------------------

Today (31st October 2013), At around 10:16AM, i looked at the High and Low of ICICIBANK on NSE (high and low from 9:15



AM to 10:15 AM), the High was at 9:43AM and i took value of Close =1101.75 and the Low was at 10:08 AM and i took value



of Low = 1089.3, the Previous High (30th Oct 2013) = 1106.9 and Previous Low = 1079.4, Difference of Prev. High - Prev. Low



= 27.5. I placed a Sell Order with (Sell = 1089.85, Buy = 1084.41, Stop Loss = 1100.74) and a simultaneous Buy Order with (Buy = 1101.2, Sell = 1106.7, Stop Loss = 1090.19)



As you had explained,



Sell Buy Stop Loss Buy Sell Stop Loss
1101.75 -11.9 = 1089.85 0.5% below 1089.85 = 1084.41 1% above 1089.85 = 1100.74 1089.3 + 11.9 = 1101.2 0.5% above 1101.2 = 1106.70 1% below 1101.2 = 1090.19
RESELL
Sell Buy Stop Loss
1101.75 -11.9 = 1089.85 0.8% below 1089.85 = 1081.13 1% above 1089.85 = 1100.74






Result: I placed both the orders (Capital amount 8,00,000 ) at 10:25AM (as I took about 10 minutes to do the calculations and enter the Sell and Buy orders into software system) and then I waited. At 11:06AM, my Sell Order was executed (the Close price at 11:06AM was 1088.65), so i sold a total of 734 shares (800000/1089.85 = 734). I cancelled the Buy order immediately and waited.At 12:53 PM, the Stop Loss was triggered and i sold the 734 shares for a loss at 807943.16, so the net loss is 807943.16-800000 = 7943.16. Then again i put a ReSell Order (Sell=1089.85, Buy = 1081.13, Stop Loss Buy - 1100.74) at 1:00pm (took around 6-7 minutes for entering order into system) Then again i put a ReSell Order with values but the Sell Price is never reached till end of day(3:30PM)



Please answer my following questions and help me in this case:



1. Are all the values correct, which i used and for placing the Sell and Buy Orders ?



2. It takes a lot of time (after 10:15AM) to do the calculations and place the orders, is it to be done manually or is there some automated way ?



3. When i have a loss in a Sell Order(Stop Loss Triggered), then said i should place a Resell order; in such a case do i also have to place the opposite trade also (Re Buy order?) Also, When i have a loss in a Buy Order(Stop Loss Triggered), then said i should place a Re Buy order; in such a case do i also have to place the opposite trade also (Re Sell order?)



4. I am getting all my values and data from the NSE website chart, the URL of which is below http://nseindia.com/ChartApp/install/charts/mainpage.jsp



Is this the right chart (1 min chart) which i should be looking at for get my figures?



5. In the above mentioned 1 minute chart, for a particular point of time there is a Open, High, Low, Close. Which value should i use (For eg. at 9:43 AM in the URL chart, it shows Open = 1100.2, High = 1101.8, Low = 1100.0, Close = 1101.75), which value out of these 4 values should i take as High between 9:15AM and 10:15AM )



6. This is a basic question which might sound silly (i have not yet got my Zerodha Trading A/C activated so i do not have the order entry screens in front of me and i am forgetting quite a bit from my past experience). If i take the example of the Sell Order (Sell, Buy, Stop Loss) first i place a Sell order and while placing the Buy Order (within the Buy Order screen itself ) do we have option of setting/giving value to Stop Loss? That means the Buy value (1084.41) and Stop Loss Value (1100.74) can be entered as part of one order ?

So does that mean, at 10:15 AM i went ahead and placed 2 orders as part of Short Sell (Sell and Buy (with inbuilt option for Stop Loss) and 2 orders as part of Long Buy (Buy and Sell (with inbuilt option for Stop Loss)). So in total there are 4 seperate orders which i have to place at 10:15AM ? Is that correct ?
Toooooo long questions post. By the time we come to last 2 questions, we ferget the first 2 and when we read first 2, again ferget last 2....will see after Diwali . Happy Diwali to all.

Smart_trade
 
#27
Toooooo long questions post. By the time we come to last 2 questions, we ferget the first 2 and when we read first 2, again ferget last 2....will see after Diwali . Happy Diwali to all.

Smart_trade
I am also confused......:confused:
 
#28
Hello Dhiraj ji

I registered with Traderji.com around 10 days back and have been reading threads and posts from veteran traders, looking for a good and almost fool proof technique to do profitable day trading for a living.

I have dabbled in swing trading, for a year with some losses and left it for 2 years. At that time, I did not do due diligence of studying and understanding the details and also (most important) learn from veteran traders.



I did minutely learn the 2652 way of trading which you had shared with all (way back in Dec 2008-Jan 2009 time frame). I would first of all thank you for the good heartedness to share your indigenous method with all, God will definitely reward you (and he might be doing currently too) for this noble act. I did paper trade based on that and I had one scenario which I wanted to share with you and get your expert advise on:



Scenario:

------------------------

Today (31st October 2013), At around 10:16AM, i looked at the High and Low of ICICIBANK on NSE (high and low from 9:15



AM to 10:15 AM), the High was at 9:43AM and i took value of Close =1101.75 and the Low was at 10:08 AM and i took value



of Low = 1089.3, the Previous High (30th Oct 2013) = 1106.9 and Previous Low = 1079.4, Difference of Prev. High - Prev. Low



= 27.5. I placed a Sell Order with (Sell = 1089.85, Buy = 1084.41, Stop Loss = 1100.74) and a simultaneous Buy Order with (Buy = 1101.2, Sell = 1106.7, Stop Loss = 1090.19)



As you had explained,



Sell Buy Stop Loss Buy Sell Stop Loss
1101.75 -11.9 = 1089.85 0.5% below 1089.85 = 1084.41 1% above 1089.85 = 1100.74 1089.3 + 11.9 = 1101.2 0.5% above 1101.2 = 1106.70 1% below 1101.2 = 1090.19
RESELL
Sell Buy Stop Loss
1101.75 -11.9 = 1089.85 0.8% below 1089.85 = 1081.13 1% above 1089.85 = 1100.74






Result: I placed both the orders (Capital amount 8,00,000 ) at 10:25AM (as I took about 10 minutes to do the calculations and enter the Sell and Buy orders into software system) and then I waited. At 11:06AM, my Sell Order was executed (the Close price at 11:06AM was 1088.65), so i sold a total of 734 shares (800000/1089.85 = 734). I cancelled the Buy order immediately and waited.At 12:53 PM, the Stop Loss was triggered and i sold the 734 shares for a loss at 807943.16, so the net loss is 807943.16-800000 = 7943.16. Then again i put a ReSell Order (Sell=1089.85, Buy = 1081.13, Stop Loss Buy - 1100.74) at 1:00pm (took around 6-7 minutes for entering order into system) Then again i put a ReSell Order with values but the Sell Price is never reached till end of day(3:30PM)



Please answer my following questions and help me in this case:



1. Are all the values correct, which i used and for placing the Sell and Buy Orders ?



2. It takes a lot of time (after 10:15AM) to do the calculations and place the orders, is it to be done manually or is there some automated way ?



3. When i have a loss in a Sell Order(Stop Loss Triggered), then said i should place a Resell order; in such a case do i also have to place the opposite trade also (Re Buy order?) Also, When i have a loss in a Buy Order(Stop Loss Triggered), then said i should place a Re Buy order; in such a case do i also have to place the opposite trade also (Re Sell order?)



4. I am getting all my values and data from the NSE website chart, the URL of which is below http://nseindia.com/ChartApp/install/charts/mainpage.jsp



Is this the right chart (1 min chart) which i should be looking at for get my figures?



5. In the above mentioned 1 minute chart, for a particular point of time there is a Open, High, Low, Close. Which value should i use (For eg. at 9:43 AM in the URL chart, it shows Open = 1100.2, High = 1101.8, Low = 1100.0, Close = 1101.75), which value out of these 4 values should i take as High between 9:15AM and 10:15AM )



6. This is a basic question which might sound silly (i have not yet got my Zerodha Trading A/C activated so i do not have the order entry screens in front of me and i am forgetting quite a bit from my past experience). If i take the example of the Sell Order (Sell, Buy, Stop Loss) first i place a Sell order and while placing the Buy Order (within the Buy Order screen itself ) do we have option of setting/giving value to Stop Loss? That means the Buy value (1084.41) and Stop Loss Value (1100.74) can be entered as part of one order ?

So does that mean, at 10:15 AM i went ahead and placed 2 orders as part of Short Sell (Sell and Buy (with inbuilt option for Stop Loss) and 2 orders as part of Long Buy (Buy and Sell (with inbuilt option for Stop Loss)). So in total there are 4 seperate orders which i have to place at 10:15AM ? Is that correct ?
SOS to Dhiraj..............as The master of 2652......is left from TJ.......we will discuss it......as ST bro say's after Diwali......:thumb:
 
#30
Smart_Trade

Thanks for the response, yes please let us discuss this 2652 system after Diwali, I have faced some loopholes in that . The loophole scenario I will post now (trade done on 1/11/2013)