Option Strategy-Advice Needed-Risk Management.

tradingstudent

Well-Known Member
#1
Hi,

Example:

Nifty LTP @ 8800

If we buy ITM options to encompass the Nifty,

Long Nifty Fut @ 8800

8900 PE @ 150
8700 CE @ 150

Scenario 1:

If Nifty moves upwards, can we remove part of the setup, in this case 8700 CE if it's value comes close about of 300 to leave the remaining set up as is?

Scenario 2: Nifty is Range Bound. Nifty will :eat: the time value and :fatigue:

Scenario 3 is, Nifty instead of going up, falls down.. I am breaking my head :eek::eek: about any possible adjustments but no avail..:confused: What type of adjustment can we look in this scenario?

Kindly critique and add inputs as you see fit..

Thanks
 
#2
Pls go thru the website ' WWW.OPTIONBINGO.COM'. You may get some ideas.
Hi,

Example:

Nifty LTP @ 8800

If we buy ITM options to encompass the Nifty,

Long Nifty Fut @ 8800

8900 PE @ 150
8700 CE @ 150

Scenario 1:

If Nifty moves upwards, can we remove part of the setup, in this case 8700 CE if it's value comes close about of 300 to leave the remaining set up as is?

Scenario 2: Nifty is Range Bound. Nifty will :eat: the time value and :fatigue:

Scenario 3 is, Nifty instead of going up, falls down.. I am breaking my head :eek::eek: about any possible adjustments but no avail..:confused: What type of adjustment can we look in this scenario?

Kindly critique and add inputs as you see fit..

Thanks
 

tradingstudent

Well-Known Member
#3
Hi Kumar,

Thanks for the link & your effort. I went through the website, it is giving strategies based on our risk appeptite & with/out our directional bias..Not adressing my specific query though..

I put in the effort & time from my end and hit a roadblock..

I am hoping & praying that any mentor would chip with their experience..

Thanks
 
#4
@Tradingstudent

Long Nifty Strangle the way you presented it and long Nifty future = Directional bullish trade setup for what ever reason in this way.

1. Yes you can.

2. You have a directional trading set up and not a trading set up for a range bound market the way you present your idea here.

3. You have a long call, a long put and a long future. Now what would you take away from your trading setup to be long on the down side?

Happy New Year. Dan / :)
 

tradingstudent

Well-Known Member
#6
@Tradingstudent

Long Nifty Strangle the way you presented it and long Nifty future = Directional bullish trade setup for what ever reason in this way.

1. Yes you can.

2. You have a directional trading set up and not a trading set up for a range bound market the way you present your idea here.

3. You have a long call, a long put and a long future. Now what would you take away from your trading setup to be long on the down side?

Happy New Year. Dan / :)
Happy New Year too you to Somatung,

a. As per your point 1., thanks for clearing it up..

b. As per your point 2.

"You have a directional trading set up and not a trading set up for a range bound market the way you present your idea here."

It wasn't meant to be a range bound market set up..What i wanted to convey was, if the underlying becomes range bound, the premium of the set up would be eroded away... I was just conveying my ideas in a pictorial form via smileys

c. As per your point 3..

"3. You have a long call, a long put and a long future. Now what would you take away from your trading setup to be long on the down side?"

As such, my intention was not to have a directional bias, but explore the possibility of it being non-directional...

****
Funny thing is, after posting my query i was scouting the threads of traderji.com for any further inputs and i see that this set up was given as a live call by traderji member Mr. Santosh2010 who seems to be a very experienced..

Here is the link to the thread:

http://www.traderji.com/advanced-trading-strategies/76625-banknifty-future-hedge-trading.html


Another traderji member by the name DanPickup, has said that there is a possibility to stay in the trade without squaring off the trades.


It is a humble request on my end to Mr. DanPickup if he is reading this, if he is aware of this adjustment and to how to go about it?

Also if Mr.Santosh2010 is reading this, please share any valuable insights...

Mr. Somatung, this is the link below:

http://www.traderji.com/advanced-trading-strategies/76625-banknifty-future-hedge-trading.html

If you get a chance, kindly take a shot at it...

I just want to add one input from my end, as a newbie it is our job to put in the effort and time, but every newbie would be very grateful if we know we have a mentor to guide us through the stumbling blocks...

Thanks

Happy New year to all traderji members
 
#7
@Tradingstudent

Live calls at this days are no more allowed in any way in the forum. This just a note to not be forgotten.

Next point:

I am DanPickUp and I thought in the mean time every body knows that and the story behind it why I have this new avatar since a long time. So I know the thread you mentioned very well.
 
#8
Happy New Year too you to Somatung,

Thank you, even it will still take hours to arrive there, because of the time different we live in. :D

a. As per your point 1., thanks for clearing it up..

Never mind.

b. As per your point 2.

"You have a directional trading set up and not a trading set up for a range bound market the way you present your idea here."

It wasn't meant to be a range bound market set up..What i wanted to convey was, if the underlying becomes range bound, the premium of the set up would be eroded away... I was just conveying my ideas in a pictorial form via smileys

I am clear about that, but mentioned for those who may did not understand it. By the way: Did you understand it in dept? Just a question and nothing else.

c. As per your point 3..

"3. You have a long call, a long put and a long future. Now what would you take away from your trading setup to be long on the down side?"

As such, my intention was not to have a directional bias, but explore the possibility of it being non-directional...

First: Did you understand in dept what trade set up you posted? Could you kindly post any prove of that with either an analyzing picture or with any greeks or math you did on that idea?

Second: If so, here you did not explain in details what is in your mind, as you just tell: If market moves down, what I do. So that is not very precisely and after woods you come up with an other thread in which the trade was already on a completely other stages compare to what you posted.
My answers so far are all in blue in the above post of yours. Take care / DanPickUp or Dan :)
 

tradingstudent

Well-Known Member
#9
Hi,

I wans't aware of Dan=Somatung...

As to your point 3. posted in blue, if you read carefully my post, i was not saying this set up belongs to any category, but exploring the possibility of it being uni-directional.. If i am wrong, i am wrong and if it is not a possibility it is not a possibility...

I do have some sense of greeks, but handling greeks & pay off diagrams is above my IQ level and in some sense, greeks are like latin to me..


Dan/Somatung, i have to disagree with your last point, if you go through the setup for my post and the link, the set up is same...

So on the thread, you said there are possible adjustments without squaring off the positions: if you are aware of any adjustment, please post it..


Thanks
 
#10
Hi Tradingstudent

Hope you had a good night and did enter the new year with fun and happiness. :)

Now lets start with the post, so that you can move on:

Point one to make every reader understand what trading setup we have:

Your example:

Long Nifty Fut @ 8800

Long Nifty 8900 PE @ 150 and long Nifty 8700 CE @ 150


This is your trading set up with out the long future, which is a long "Strangle" http://i57.tinypic.com/23k5zl.png . Now after adding the long future to those two option legs, it looks like this http://i57.tinypic.com/2ezr6a8.png and this is a directional trade setup which is ok. Why is it directional? Because of the many delta you have on the plus side, which is around plus 150, but on the down side it is only around minus 40.

Point two: In the thread you mentioned, I posted that he has now a synthetic long call after he sold his long option call leg. He now had a long put and a long future leg which looks like this http://i60.tinypic.com/qybzgk.png So market did make a move and then he acted. (Belongs to the question one you had). Now with this synthetic call you can do many things.

Point three to which we now come to your question three which was this: Scenario 3 is, Nifty instead of going up, falls down.. I am breaking my head about any possible adjustments but no avail.. What type of adjustment can we look in this scenario? Here it is not clear about what we talk. Do you mean this question after you did enter your trading setup or do you mean this question after market moved up and you already have sold your long call or do we mean this question after market moved up and you still have all three legs? :) And here to me it looks a bit like you do not understand in dept what you have in front of you and why the trading setup is like it is and not in an other way. But never mind and let's clear it up to a certain point:

Scenario one: Your trading setup as posted, with out any move in the market, is and stays as a bullish, directional trading set up. If you want to have it non directional at this moment when market goes down instead up, then you take away the long future leg and you have a long, classical strangle. As simple as that. Now your put leg start to add value and if the market makes a strong down move, this profit will even compensate the loss you make on the call leg. If you want to make it directional on the down side, then you sell two futures so that you are short one future and have the two option legs. Why shorting two futures? Because in your original trading setup you are long one future, so you have to sell two futures to have one short future left.

Scenario two: If market moves fast and quit strongly up, you will quickly add value on this side because of the plus 150 delta you have in the original trading setup. At the moment you sell the long call, you have the synthetic call left. The idea behind that concept is to profit on the long future at the same time you profit on the long call. But the long call you through away at the moment he has doubled. So the long put is paid and that is the main reason to implement the trading setup in this way and not in any other way.

Now market moves further up and you move on with the two legs you have left, which is the long future and the long put. If your question was pointed to that specific moment, then you should have mentioned that clearly, but you didn't do that in your post. Any way. Now you can do what ever with those two legs. You can keep the put and keep the future leg or you also can get rid off either of them or you convert into an other option strategy. Here no limits are given and you have to act according to what market does. Still, do not trade such trading setups in case you are not feeling comfortable with such way of trading, as at the moment you lose your self with the legs you have in the market, you can make quick bigger losses. Teaching on that level over a forum is to time consuming for me. So I will not further move on from here and you have to start to play around with the legs by your self according to what market is showing on the screen. That is the best way to understand what each leg you have in the market means and can be used for. (To start such a training you make a small notice on your computer on which you all the time see which option, if short call/put or long call/put, is used for what direction. The same for the future. The whole game is to understand those in dept, so that if market goes crazy you are able to do the right things with the different legs you have implemented in the market in a very quick and sure way. To reach that level you have to train your self in case you really want to move on with in dept option strategy trading, which is a way to make money in the market, but not the only way. :) So it is your choice. Later you do make such a notice with the greeks).

Take care / Dan :)