Need advice from seniors: Should i stay off market after this loss? Really?

Status
Not open for further replies.

kingsmasher1

Well-Known Member
#21
Hope its nt a case like-u had only 5L & u lost 4L,now u left wid 60k-1L in a hand?
some1 had similar stry here & d guy is missing now,may b he lost all of his money.

dear,if u hv 10L capita,den u can rcovr ur loss,else,considr u already out of d game
As i said in earlier post, 3500 is lot size, and mine went to around close to 2 lakhs which means around 50 lots or close to. I had a trading capital of around 21 lakhs that day, and it was MIS cover order where the leverage is much higher than a normal MIS.

But even with 1 lakh just from calculation point of view you can easily trade 1 to 2 lots of futures taking MIS orders. 2k per day, 20 days a month, and 12 months a year makes you 4.8 lakhs in a year ☺ Although trading daily and being consistent is a differnt question altogether.
 
Last edited:

Satya.

Well-Known Member
#22
As i said in earlier post, 3500 is lot size, and mine went to around close to 2 lakhs which means around 50 lots or close to. I had a trading capital of around 21 lakhs that day, and it was MIS cover order where the leverage is much higher than a normal MIS.
gud 2 knw dat u hv a dcent cap 2 trd.
averging+high leverge killed u

bt no prob,u can still rcver dat loss.
if i'm at ur place,i'd trade vedl wid 5 lots+add 3 lots+2 lot=10lots(adds only in a trending market),else wud b trding wid JUST 3 lots as fear of execution is there.
 

kingsmasher1

Well-Known Member
#23
Thanks kisna.

Also, i thank all the seniors for providing your invaluable suggestion.

It really matters a lot to me, to get advice from senior and experienced traders, and get an opportunity to know from your experience.
I am really indebted to you folks.

As the seniors suggested I will try and take a break, and stay away from the market for sometime, trading in equities more, and also not average a losing trade.
Interacting with you have given me the confidence to face the tough market competition.

A big thanks to all the seniors once again for your kind advice. Thank You.
 

Tuna

Listen and act, don't ask it, it doesn't oblige
#24
Unsoliciated advice from The Fake Trader

  • If you want to quit trading, quit for good
  • Trading is for making money. But if your primary source of income is good enough , why even trade?
  • If you are thinking you need to trade to recover that lost money back (the primary thought) - don't trade, you will lose out more. Try this otherwise
  • Now, if you feel you want trading as a career option (secondery), on a serious note
  1. First learn dealing in proper size- If I see that comment that you lost 4 Lakhs in hour, which is your 3 months saving (if I read your post right, 3 times, i.e 12 lakhs a year inflow). Essentially if I put my money matter in place, you should not be trading with more than 1 Laks baseline caps in place, each trade not risking more than 2%
  2. If anyone is telling this is a drawdown - trust me it was not. It simply shows bad money management, lack of self control in lose making days
  3. Avoid F&O in stocks for some time being, try Nifty.
  4. Last but not the least, avoid contrarion trade, always trade in direction of the trend & learn to grow slowly
 

kingsmasher1

Well-Known Member
#25
Unsoliciated advice from The Fake Trader

  • If you want to quit trading, quit for good
  • Trading is for making money. But if your primary source of income is good enough , why even trade?
  • If you are thinking you need to trade to recover that lost money back (the primary thought) - don't trade, you will lose out more. Try this otherwise
  • Now, if you feel you want trading as a career option (secondery), on a serious note
  1. First learn dealing in proper size- If I see that comment that you lost 4 Lakhs in hour, which is your 3 months saving (if I read your post right, 3 times, i.e 12 lakhs a year inflow). Essentially if I put my money matter in place, you should not be trading with more than 1 Laks baseline caps in place, each trade not risking more than 2%
  2. If anyone is telling this is a drawdown - trust me it was not. It simply shows bad money management, lack of self control in lose making days
  3. Avoid F&O in stocks for some time being, try Nifty.
  4. Last but not the least, avoid contrarion trade, always trade in direction of the trend & learn to grow slowly

@Tuna: Thank you so much for the post, that makes absolute sense.

I had traded each and every day without a gap for the last 6 months, now being away seems a
challenge. I have started doing everything i can to distract me :) :
Playing online games, working more and even in weekends (thanks to WFH privilege we get), and even making way so that my leads, and managers micro-manage me more, so that i concentrate more on work :)

At one point of time, i had planned to quit my full-time job after a year or two..lol, and now i am sitting off. :mad::mad:

The bad thing was, i started ignoring my regular work real bad that i started getting scared to lose it, which has gone off now, though in a very painful way :(. They had put me to a new DICOM project, which is completely out of my skill-set, and since we have a work-from-home privilege, somehow after turning on the office computer instead of studying that, i started TradeTiger and spending hours at it, for which i hated myself but couldn't control.

One thing that scares me is, after this gap (say 1 to 1.5 years), i should not start with exactly where i was a year back.

Was looking to do things like, get some NSE certified course, or work with some simulators (worked with tradingsim once long back and looks good, though it does not Camarilla pivots - which is part of my trade setup), or something even as dumb as taking Yogeshwar Vashishtha's course (http://pathfinderstrainings.com/), or reading a secion of Zerodha Varsity a week is another stuff.
 
Last edited:

bpr

Well-Known Member
#26
couple of my observation ::

1) you are blaming food poisoning and illness for your bad trade instead of taking responsibility.

2) the main reason for your big loss was lack of stoploss. But looks like you still did not figured it out ...you are thinking having 3 times the capital in bank will somehow protect you. absurd...

3) your averaging strategy looks like martingale.

You are coming of as a person who has no clue what he is doing ...and rattled by recent losses and desperate to do something ...it is recipe for disaster..

take a break till u figure out what went wrong ....take your time .....
 

Tuna

Listen and act, don't ask it, it doesn't oblige
#27
@Tuna: Thank you so much for the post, that makes absolute sense.

I had traded each and every day without a gap for the last 6 months, now being away seems a
challenge...
This is my second (and hopefully last) set of free advice:

  • Never ever compromise on your primary source of income for sake of trading. Trading is a game of probability, Life is not
  • There are ways to strike a balance between trading and job. Positional trading (Hourly or Daily tick) is one way. Another is trading in MCX (which I do) during evening.
  • Intraday trading gives people the sense of security that they are not carrying trade overnight. However, when it comes to predictibility, it is a little easiser to predict move in a higher timeframe than a lower one. Money being made on positional trade is higher for most of trading strategies available, then the lower TF one.
  • Preservation of capital is the first level of learning in trading. We are so mesmerised with the idea of winning each time, we keep on holding to losing trade (although initially planned SL is gone), averaging loss making trade etc. So, if you are planning to learn the trade as you don't want lose in touch, I will suggest learn how to preserve capital (Essentially meaning not losing more than 2% in any trade) and making peace with your losses , instead of fighting with the market
  • Second point to focus in Daily Tick Trend(which is must) - avoid Dholak Trading or range bound market. Only focus on instruments which are showing strong trend. Enter in the direction of trend using your method (like you say camarilla pivot) - Support (S1,S2) during bullishness and vica a versa for bearish trend. Never ever call a top or bottom in a market agains the trend - but do that without fail when you are in direction of trend

  • Last, Journal your trade (even if you take only 1-2 trade a week), and reveiw (over the weekend) how you traded. Sample :


This is what I track :

So over next 1 year, if you can focus (once more) only on 3 things:

  • Accepting loss, preserving caps
  • Avoiding trading againt trend
  • Journal and review
Pick any damn strategy from the internet, all with yield. I have shown this personally to prove this point. Give me any strategy, I will prove (again) it will work as well.

Here is my 3rd 18 point for the day - without Dholak,
....
System does not mater when it comes to followign trend - everything works.
...
54 (18 X 3) in 3 intra, all longs, with trend.

Positional already 100+ holding full.


I won't mind to supervise your trade-journal and review, and providing my comments if you want (subject to market availability of my bandwidth) - and that's free of cost. But response might get delayed at times (at times by weeks)

Remember the key to trade is making friendship with Market, not in fighting with it. So, if trend tells, hey I am going down, short and else buy. Simple !! But will take time to practice this.

That's all buddy, wish you luck !!

P.S- Do read this post (might save you some money you are planning to subscribe for those courses) - here it is all.

Vijay,
(Caution Long post ahead)
 
Last edited:

kingsmasher1

Well-Known Member
#28
This is my second (and hopefully last) set of free advice:

Remember the key to trade is making friendship with Market, not in fighting with it. So, if trend tells, hey I am going down, short and else buy. Simple !! But will take time to practice this.

That's all buddy, wish you luck !!

P.S- Do read this post (might save you some money you are planning to subscribe for those courses) - here it is all.
@Tuna: That's a huge help sir, thanks a ton. Nothing more i could have asked for, also so kind of you. Will definitely reach out to you, once i start to trade, to discuss.
Also, I was using a strategy in intraday, which was fetching me a sound profit each and every day with continuous 10 days non-stop. Would be glad to get your comments on it. It is not exactly a trend following strategy right from 09:15 am, but works 95% of the time as i have seen. The drawback is, it fetches you lesser points unlike a trend following one which gets much more points.

This might not be a right thread to post and discuss my trading strategy, as it will be off-topic, so will post it in a different thread or PM you to get your kind advice and comments of what you think about it. Comments and inputs from seasoned and experienced traders acts as a boost and matters a lot more than anything else.


couple of my observation ::

take a break till u figure out what went wrong ....take your time .....
@bpr Agree with you, each and every bit of it, sirjee, thank you once again for the post.
 
Last edited:

headstrong007

----- Full-Time ----- Day-Trader
#29
Simple steps..for successful trading:-

1st paper trade to build any successful system...with positive expectancy...
Select few scrips on which that system worked, every scrip has its own character of price actions..U can trading for living by only mastering one scrip.
I know some friend who trades only SBI & DLF for a living.
Now start real life trading with 3-5 units cash stocks...Try to do averaging and partial profit booking on them. U can't average more than 3-4 times. And remember averaging must be done in zig zag moves in retracements, not one-way opposite move.
When u r successful add units in multiples of 3-5, use same strategies... Finally, replace ur cash stocks with future lots 3-5 units. And slowly increase lots in similar process..
The whole process can take 7-10 years... But at the end, u'll earn much more money on trading about 25 lakhs cap than what u take from salary. And u r ur boss then.. can take holiday anytime...work from anywhere too..

But, u know... such a dream profession with high return and full of independence... must be one of the hardest in the world...It's not like any other profession... Its also a dangerous game full of adrenaline rush...
-------------
The market plays with traders mind...The Art Of Speculation is very difficult to achieve...
Better start slowly...Don't lose your hard-earned by competing with professional traders when you have not acquired enough skills..
And u may not acquired it in your life time.. But if u start slowly with less capital, it will not hurt you... Market hurt successful peoples(on other field) sentiment/ego so hard that he/she come to market, again and again to recover lost money.. In the process loses more.
 

Tuna

Listen and act, don't ask it, it doesn't oblige
#30
@Tuna: I was using a strategy in intraday, which was fetching me a sound profit each and every day with continuous 10 days non-stop. Would be glad to get your comments on it. It is not exactly a trend following strategy right from 09:15 am, but works 95% of the time as i have seen. The drawback is, it fetches you lesser points unlike a trend
@bpr Agree with you, each and every bit of it, sirjee, thank you once again for the post.
Caution: Few Harsh words Ahead !!

Let me be very candid, no intraday strategy (which is consistently tradable, i.e. one can verify and validate the setup and trigger in a humanly possible reaction time) can yield such a high strike rate if that has a greater than > 1 RR. So myself (and of course other TJI members) would be very interested to know how you derive 95% figure. Do let me know what is your SL for that 1 or 2 points you earn. is it > risk? if yes, how much?

And of course if it was the stat based on just last 6 months or some long backtest. See, getting 10 sessions of winning streak is no mean achievement, but that is not enough to sign off the trading style. All things boils down simple Math (Win-Rate & RR combination)

So if you have 95% with RR > 1 , I will pay you 4 Lakhs (I mean it, give your bank a/c no, I will transfer) to buy your strategy. Provided I am sure, it is tradable.

I don't know anything how you trade - but let me guess, your SL is wider than your target. Is that right?

Now let me give you an example, I know a guy from my trading group who has a win-rate of around 70% (still less than yours) but he still ends his months in Red. The reason, the payoff sucks. He trades for 12 points with a SL of 50 points (RR = 1/4), yeah funny.

With such a wide net, he of course catches the small fishes from the pond more frequently than others - thats a huge win-rate. But the day SL gets hit, a single loss makes him lose more than 4 winning trades. Eventually, he is ending in red more or less every month. And a losing streak of 4 trades has blown his account. Another bad aspect (similar to the first post of your on this thread), his trading style shows that he is loss-avert & is kin to win every time by any means. As result, on the days when his SL is about to get hit, he drags it wider as he induced to the belief that it will make a U-turn to the profit zone, because it did > 70% time. And he also does average of losing trades (like you did, I believe you usually do that many time, which resulted in profit), But, then

Then, one of these days come:




“If you can’t take a small loss, sooner or later you will take the mother of all losses.” - Ed Seykota

I guess you just did that on your last trade.

I have self-imposed limitations on my thinking and interpreting charts, which I developed after so many years of practices. So essentially, I do the trade as a block-head, where no other idea comes to my mind. Having said that, this post of mine is not at all meant for discrediting or discouraging your trading style. As my way definitely not the only way to trade.

So, do share your method to this forum, let it go under lenses of all other like-minded traders, they will point out if it is the right way or are there many loopholes.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads