Is earning in Day trading so very easy?

[ushasunil]

Hi all

Iam just wondering whether earning in Day trading has become so very simple and easy

Consider this....

With an investment of Rs 1lac, with a broker like Zerodha, we can take positions of around 10 Lots in Nifty

Even if we manage to get 7 pts positively on a daily basis, we set to earn around Rs 2500/- per day (excl brokerages, as i read in Zerodha thread, they charge around 2 pts per lot as total charges incl brokerage, taxes etc)

I mean just trade one trade for 7 points positively, we can earn 2500x20 which is equal to Rs 50000/- per month :clap:, which is 50% of our investment.

Am i talking sane here?
Are these do-able?
Is anyone doing like this?
Is anyone tried doing like this and failed miserably?

Just 7 pts, think shud be achievable in any market, even in dumb non-moving market may give that 7 pts.

Anyone who has experience in this may share their thots here
Sadistic, sarcastic comments are also Welcome :lol:
But please dont post something like, "you do it in minifty and post the results here after 1 month" types

hi,
even i was just thinking of capturing the small movements of stocks n I am sure that will work, either long or short. Whats your opinion about taking accurate tips from some of the leading providers? They are charging heafty fees..

 

[.Pride.]

8 yrs back: I wanted 100% per month returns...I would spend all my free time trying to make strategies that would make me those kind of returns...I would try different indicators...I would stack many indicators...I would tweak their settings...thinking that the holy grail lies in some secret settings...I would not look at any charts higher than 5min

6 yrs back: After facing regular losses, I removed some indicators...reduced my monthly targets to 50%...thought up some more strategies...

4yrs back: Got frustrated with the continued losses...thought that trading was not for me...took a sabbatical...came back with a fresh mind and thought of new approaches...was still trying to make a lot of money fast...

3yrs back: Instead of focusing on trading stategies, started understanding money management techniques as well...finally understood the redundancy of indicators...started to look at higher time frames...started feeling that even 20% per month return would be great...

2yrs back: One line that changed everything for me:

"It's not whether you're right or wrong that's important, but how much money you make when you're right and how much you lose when you're wrong."

Now: I trade using daily charts...no indicators...feel that even 50% per annum returns would be great...my winning trades are usually 2-3 times my losing trades...I can afford to be right only 35% of the times and still be very profitable...and I have all the time in the world to pursue my hobbies...

It took me 8 yrs to realize this...maybe this post can help someone cut his time by a couple of years

 

[futur]

Hi all

Iam just wondering whether earning in Day trading has become so very simple and easy

Consider this....

With an investment of Rs 1lac, with a broker like Zerodha, we can take positions of around 10 Lots in Nifty

Even if we manage to get 7 pts positively on a daily basis, we set to earn around Rs 2500/- per day (excl brokerages, as i read in Zerodha thread, they charge around 2 pts per lot as total charges incl brokerage, taxes etc)

I mean just trade one trade for 7 points positively, we can earn 2500x20 which is equal to Rs 50000/- per month :clap:, which is 50% of our investment.

Am i talking sane here?
Are these do-able?
Is anyone doing like this?
Is anyone tried doing like this and failed miserably?

Just 7 pts, think shud be achievable in any market, even in dumb non-moving market may give that 7 pts.

Anyone who has experience in this may share their thots here
Sadistic, sarcastic comments are also Welcome :lol:
But please dont post something like, "you do it in minifty and post the results here after 1 month" types

it is difficult to even get 1 point on nifty everyday , nevermind seven points.
what though is achievable is 20 * 7 ie 140 points monthly .
however i do not think one can trade in 10 lots of nifty with 1 lac with zerodha ..also there is something called money management ....

 

[jagankris]

Dear 4xpipcounter,

People think of trading as a quick rich scheme and this thread is one good example.

People who come to markets just see the 5% exceptional traders comparing to the 95% losers in day trading.

Every one have their own experiences and stages in trading in terms of knowledge,Money and the mindset.

So people at different stages will have different opinion and when I say I disagree it is simply that my experience or my understanding doesn't match your statement so what's in there if you mind or don't mind my view.

315 method - is one of the good example for successful MA cross over trading.

I personally don't believe in predictive strategies except for the tape and that too for short term movements.

In forex SL can be moved automatically where as here it has to be managed manually.

One could be more calm in a trading a statistical model with a predetermined target and stop than a trading smaller time frames where discretion is a part and requires constant monitoring of price.

I can be commercially more successful in appointing a dealer and ask him to simply follow the buy sell signals of mechanical system than day trading myself if I wanted to make more money out right for the "I" will not be there.

IMO trading is not just method alone.

But trading is self discovery.Yes some times painful but I am enjoying this.Each day I am gaining insights.I have to undergo this struggle before the required attitude becomes my habit and the gap between my conscious understanding and subconscious mind gets filled.

I think every body has to undergo this struggle before becoming a successful trader to be part of the elite 5% group.

Hi Jagankris. I don't mind it in the least if someone disagrees with me, so I'll explain, and BTW, many valid points

I prefer to let my actions do the talking for me. I know you have checked out my forecasts, and have commented on them. That is the proof right there that anything is possible.
At the risk of sounding cocky beyond my years (All 54 of them), I have said I am my favorite forecaster, and all I trade are my forecasts. My forecasts are based around my methodology.
Let me also say, there are only 2 essential ways the markets can go--north or south. There are only 2 types of profits you are going to have--negative or positive. Simply put, if you have positive profits (I am on the positive side of that ledger.), then you will have consistent gains.

Is there a methodology that is foolproof? No! There is not any that is foolproof, mine included. But then, it doesn't have to be. I post 15% losing trades, based on my methodology. I win consistently because of the 85% winning trades, therefore, a foolproof methodology is not necessary. And, after all, all methodologies have been created by us humans so you know it can't be foolproof. All you want is a methodology that breaks that 58% barrier that I mentioned earlier.

MA crossover methods? They don't work. If any of them do consistently, I am open to you showing me the proof, and I'll stand corrected. The main reason they do not work, is that the markets are only in sharp trends 30% of the time. The other 70% they aren't....naturally. It is during those times that you would get the stereotyped crossover, and then the market is going against you. Vendors use MA crossovers, because they do not know how to trade, and they look good on paper.

You asked another valid question in what traders can't follow their rules and methods. This is why trading is harder than even what I make it sound. (I hope the newbies are reading this.) Developing a methodology is the easy part. Proper money management is harder, because of the very issues this whole thread was started on. Harder yet is the intangible part of trading, and that is the mind or mental discipline to stick to that methodology. This is why I said in my other post to first make $5 per day, develop confidence, and then make the bigger money. This is a gradual, building process. When you build a firm foundation for your trading, fear and greed are not nearly as big of an issue.
The mental part of trading is a daily process. I am not immuned, and no other trader in the industry is.

The point you made about daytrading is indicative of the fact that daytrading may not be for you on a personal level. Others like making those quick decisions and are good at it. I have a friend who is an institutional trader. He makes 20 trades per day, and 17 are good, as an overall average. Convince him that daytrading is not good. This is why trading is personal. We trade what is best for us, personally. What we trade and how we trade is not important, as long as we win consistently.

Nifty down 50 points in 10 minutes? Yep, I've seen it! Were you on the right side of that trade? If you weren't, was your stop in place? It is wasn't, do you have very conservative lot sizes? If the trader's pot was wiped out, it is his fault. Blunt, but true. There are principles you have to abide by.

If the market keeps you guessing, then take a look at your methodology. If it is a proven winner, then why be guessing? Enter the trade, set your stop and TP, and walk away. If you are still losing consistently ,then take a look at parts of your methodology and see what is wrong with it. After all, if your stop and TP are in place, and then you let it do its thing, and it is still losing, then it has to be back to square one for you.

If there is a war between you and your emotions, then step back from your live trading, take another look, identify the problem, and then push ahead. You mindset needs to be the same as when you enter the trade and exit the trade. It needs to be the same as when you post a losing trade as a winning trade. It is all part of the business. On a personal level, I knew I made advances in my trading when my wife could no longer tell what kind of a day, week, or month I had by my outward demeanor. I made over 600 pips last week. This week I haven't even made 100 pips. Emotionally, there is no difference.

 

[jagankris]

hi,
even i was just thinking of capturing the small movements of stocks n I am sure that will work, either long or short. Whats your opinion about taking accurate tips from some of the leading providers? They are charging heafty fees..

1.Do a business which you know otherwise get out of the business.Why buy tips instead try to learn how the tips are given.

2.Be - independent.Find a mentor and pay him the hefty fees and learn Trading,TA,strategy or what ever you name it.

3.Why the so called leading tips providers give calls instead of trading for themselves and make the money from the markets ?.

4.Never follow tipsters for you will never improve your trading and attitude.

 

[new-to-markets]

Good one

Tough to think that i need to get through all these to be a successful trader :annoyed:

8 yrs back: I wanted 100% per month returns...I would spend all my free time trying to make strategies that would make me those kind of returns...I would try different indicators...I would stack many indicators...I would tweak their settings...thinking that the holy grail lies in some secret settings...I would not look at any charts higher than 5min

6 yrs back: After facing regular losses, I removed some indicators...reduced my monthly targets to 50%...thought up some more strategies...

4yrs back: Got frustrated with the continued losses...thought that trading was not for me...took a sabbatical...came back with a fresh mind and thought of new approaches...was still trying to make a lot of money fast...

3yrs back: Instead of focusing on trading stategies, started understanding money management techniques as well...finally understood the redundancy of indicators...started to look at higher time frames...started feeling that even 20% per month return would be great...

2yrs back: One line that changed everything for me:

"It's not whether you're right or wrong that's important, but how much money you make when you're right and how much you lose when you're wrong."

Now: I trade using daily charts...no indicators...feel that even 50% per annum returns would be great...my winning trades are usually 2-3 times my losing trades...I can afford to be right only 35% of the times and still be very profitable...and I have all the time in the world to pursue my hobbies...

It took me 8 yrs to realize this...maybe this post can help someone cut his time by a couple of years

 

[Caesar]

The main challenge to making money in the markets are the psychological barriers that are contradictory to the way market behaves. Every beginner aspires to get rich with the logical he conceived upon, like, capturing 50% of the move or even only 10% or so( by which he thinks being ultra conservative about his expectations) and because of this he has predetermined expectations of the market even before entering.
Once in the market, all the greed that he had, vanishes but something more serious and more imminent overtakes his reasoning.
When he enters the market and the move is going his way, he acknowledges the way market has been rational and that his sound skills have been put to litmus test and he has cleared it to brave enough. With the growing confidence, he believes that market will move further and will surely give windfall profits and even when there is a pullback, will assure himself that this is only a minor correction basing his reason partly on his skill but more so on his expectations. What should have been a good move becomes small and now he is worried that he might not capture the move that he anticipated and he will take small profits way less that the original move.
When he enters the market and it starts moving against him, he is puzzled the way market is behaving and stay puts as the market has to reverse back because that is based on sound logic. Ultimately when he thinks enough is enough he exits but with a huge loss.

What went wrong when he was in huge profits but pocketed only a small? Why didnt he exit in the later case with a small loss but with a big hole in his pocket?
It is purely his expectations of the market based on his personality that has let him down.

Market behaves the way it behaves and it is always correct. When seen through the lens we are wearing we see what we want to see and takes only that part of the information that validates our thought process and confirms to the reasoning. Coming out of this perception is the real challenge that makes one between a successful trader and a
Every trader would have learnt skills that are required but one is successful while many other are not. No amount of fine tuning our strategies will work because it is ultimately our perceptions that lets us to take a trade or not.
It is the absolute sense of objectivity in the reasoning that one should try to learn.
The returns are by-product of this, but one will be surprised that they are really really good when the perceptions about greed, fear, expectations are altered.

 

[4xpipcounter]

NTM, let's say you want to be an Accountant. You've had no training in that field, but it intrigues you. So, what do you do? You go to school to learn all you need to learn in that field, and then graduate with your degree 2-4 years later. Once graduated, you are now ready to enter the workforce in that field, but even at that point you are considered to be a rookie. You know you did the right thing because your job pays good money, and you have found your career calling.
This is the same thing, except there are no degrees. That is because the learning is constant, but it is free. You will never need to pay for any training. But, it does take awhile to learn and hone your schools.
The reward is you will make better money than an accountant, or for that matter, you can make more money than any doctor or lawyer. If you develop it into a FT profession, you will them have the wherewithal to report to work any place your computer takes you. I'm not much into the ego aspect of trading, but if you are a winner, you are then placed in the top 10% in your field, because 90% in this field lose.
What won't happen is that you decide to trade today, and then you will make winning trades like the pros next week. No such thing! Like any job, you got to get your training first.
What Pride shared with you is practical, and his reputation is such that he was sincere when he said, "maybe this post can help someone cut his time by a couple of years." He gave you an 8-year process. Regardless of how long it takes to develop your skills, you will look back and be very glad you paid the price.

Good one

Tough to think that i need to get through all these to be a successful trader :annoyed:

 

[harisince1988]

Hi all

Iam just wondering whether earning in Day trading has become so very simple and easy

Consider this....

With an investment of Rs 1lac, with a broker like Zerodha, we can take positions of around 10 Lots in Nifty

Even if we manage to get 7 pts positively on a daily basis, we set to earn around Rs 2500/- per day (excl brokerages, as i read in Zerodha thread, they charge around 2 pts per lot as total charges incl brokerage, taxes etc)

I mean just trade one trade for 7 points positively, we can earn 2500x20 which is equal to Rs 50000/- per month :clap:, which is 50% of our investment.

Am i talking sane here?
Are these do-able?
Is anyone doing like this?
Is anyone tried doing like this and failed miserably?

Just 7 pts, think shud be achievable in any market, even in dumb non-moving market may give that 7 pts.

Anyone who has experience in this may share their thots here
Sadistic, sarcastic comments are also Welcome :lol:
But please dont post something like, "you do it in minifty and post the results here after 1 month" types

best idea better join any companies who give u sure hit cals..enter that cal with al your intraday limit..come out with profit..:thumb::thumb::thumb:

 

[harisince1988]

it is difficult to even get 1 point on nifty everyday , nevermind seven points.
what though is achievable is 20 * 7 ie 140 points monthly .
however i do not think one can trade in 10 lots of nifty with 1 lac with zerodha ..also there is something called money management ....

have you come across this thread?

http://www.traderji.com/day-trading/49911-intraday-view-its-my-view-not-calls.html