Is earning in Day trading so very easy?

[new-to-markets]

but we are talking abt specific case of NF trading with zerodha...so no question of 6 times or 0.1 brokerages here

here i wil solve your doubt with the knowledge i have....Im not a technical expert..just a normal trader..

i will share u my technique i use..all depends on the fund management..

let us consider we have 10 k as our initial investment...my broker provides me 6 to 7 times intraday limit..lets consider 6times as our intraday limit...

lets consider 50 % returns as u said..(u can earn even 100 to 150% returns per month)

now for 50 % returns in a month i need 2.5%(2.5 * 20 trading days= 50 %) returns each days..if u cummulate ur earnings u can earn more than 50 % in a month..

now at the start of the day we have 60 k as our intraday limit..

let it be any broker..correct intraday brokerage is 0.03%..totally it wil come 0.1%(0.03+0.03+taxes extra) as brokerage for completing one trade..

now my script is unitech here in this example..

fro 60k as my limit..i can buy 1600 shares of unitech at 39.35/ share...

now if v see a profit of just 0.2 we wil earn 320 rs...now our 2.5% daily target is (250+60 as brokerage) totally 310...now we earned 320 with price movement of 0.2 per share..if its 0.35 then 5% which is 100% returns per month..


Intraday is really the best way to earn lot...but not easy way...til now i have said the positive side...but look of the negative side..if price moves 0.35 against your direction then u lose (560 + 60 as brokerage) 620 which is more than 5% of ur investment..


so u can earn lot in intraday by using the intraday limit booking profit with very small price movements..but the sad thing is its very risk..

i dint tel its not possible..possible with risk attached to it...

if u do two trade as above and both was in loss then u loss more than 10% of ur investment...

but if u luk profit then its 10 % perday which is 200% permonth..

you can cumulate ur earning to luk more returns...

al depends on money management and knowledge of the market and picking the right stock at right time...



if u are luking for trading in nifty or mini nifty then i think this thread wil be useful for u..

view this link

http://www.traderji.com/day-trading/49911-intraday-view-its-my-view-not-calls.html
:thumb::thumb::thumb:

 

[LAYA]

Hai,

Always ur risk reward ratio should be atleast 1:1. So as per ur opinion, since ur reward is 7 pts, we have to put stoploss at 7 pts or nearer which can be hitted very easily in volatile mkt. Also catch a big move in mkts. As per my view 35-40 pts canbe easily taken in trendy mkts (which means that u should enter in a trendy mkt. how many trades we r doing is not important but how much we have earned is very important). So follow a setup or strategy. You execute as per ur setup is very important. I am sure u can win.

Bye.

 

[jagankris]

Bottom line, as Vibuhnair mentioned, establish a methodology, and anything is possible.

Dear 4xPipCounter,

Establish a methodology and anything is possible - I disagree.
If you trade higher time frames and don't stare the monitor second by second.

Is there any methodology which is fool proof especially in day trading ?
Ok - assuming no method is fool proof and I use a simple MA cross over.Methodology is over.

Why are traders are not able to follow their rules and method ?

Day trading requires quick decision making.
It requires monitoring the prices each second isn't it ?
Few seconds in blue and few seconds in red.
Nifty down 50 points in matter of 10 minutes.Profits are wiped in just 5 to 10 minutes rapidly.
Market keeps you guessing each second.
Each second is a war between you and your emotions.

How are you managing this ?

TIA.

Dear Pride,

Your recent words that you don't day trade and moved to swing trading shocked my confidence.
Please come in support of the argument that method alone is not every thing.

TIA.

 

[rajgreenpeace]

If ur r a heart patient...........please avoid intraday........m I heart patient? ans is no bcz I lost 80k in single trade still m alive!!!!!!!!!! For newbies loss n profit will b 10 times means 1K profit=10k loss.......So if u r ready to accept 10 times loss then go ahead......

 

[Smart_trade]

Anyone trading 10 Lots of Nifty futures with a trading capital of Rs 1 Lac is sure to blow up his trading account. A 7 point loss on this position when you add brokerage, STT and slippage, it will knock off 5 % of your account and if you have 2-3 losses consecutively then the 15 % of your account is down in a single day......very high leverage even for a day trader......

7 point profit.....great idea...but what happens to losses ?? suppose you hit a first trade of the day as a looser, then you need 10 +7 =17 points on your next trade.....suppose next trade makes 7 points profits...will you book it or wait for 17 points profits ? If you dont book, and the trade goes say 9 points in profit and starts going in reverse direction....then what do you do ?? If you book, you are still in a loss considering brokerage,STT,taxes etc....If you book 7 points and the trade goes to make 70 points....how will you feel as you are still sitting with a loss.....?

The assumption here is we make a single trade in a day ....all trades are profitable and so it appears simple....but in practice things are not that simple....you will soon discover that. Can it be done with certainty ? The answer is NO.....

Instead if you ask can 35-50 points ( 7 X 5 trading days ) be made in a week day trading nifty ? The answer is definate YES.....and if you start thinking on these lines, you will succeed as a day trader.And remove that 10 lots idea from your mind....your position should not be such that you are risking more than 1 to 1.5 % of your trading capital on a single trade...this is necessary if you want to survive in this game for long.

The above are my personal views based on my experience as a day and swing trader ......there will be many trading wizards who claim to be making 200 % return per month on their capital of Rs 25,000 and I wish them good luck and I hope to see them trading after one year in the market......

Best wishes for your success.....

Smart_trade

 

[4xpipcounter]

Let me make another point. Many newbies get into trading with huge grandiose dreams, and most of the time those dreams are shattered, because of the fact everything looks so good on paper.
Convince yourself first you can make $5 per day (relative to your rs 5), before even thinking of 2500 per day. Build on just quiet consistency without trying to create the big KABOOM in the industry. 5 per day does not sound like much. But here is a cold hard fact-- if you are making that much per day, you are in the top 90% in the industry, because the other 90% are going bankrupt.
If you can convince yourself you can make 5 per day, then one of these days you might retire rich.
This is a simple reality gut check.

 

[4xpipcounter]

Hi Jagankris. I don't mind it in the least if someone disagrees with me, so I'll explain, and BTW, many valid points

I prefer to let my actions do the talking for me. I know you have checked out my forecasts, and have commented on them. That is the proof right there that anything is possible.
At the risk of sounding cocky beyond my years (All 54 of them), I have said I am my favorite forecaster, and all I trade are my forecasts. My forecasts are based around my methodology.
Let me also say, there are only 2 essential ways the markets can go--north or south. There are only 2 types of profits you are going to have--negative or positive. Simply put, if you have positive profits (I am on the positive side of that ledger.), then you will have consistent gains.

Is there a methodology that is foolproof? No! There is not any that is foolproof, mine included. But then, it doesn't have to be. I post 15% losing trades, based on my methodology. I win consistently because of the 85% winning trades, therefore, a foolproof methodology is not necessary. And, after all, all methodologies have been created by us humans so you know it can't be foolproof. All you want is a methodology that breaks that 58% barrier that I mentioned earlier.

MA crossover methods? They don't work. If any of them do consistently, I am open to you showing me the proof, and I'll stand corrected. The main reason they do not work, is that the markets are only in sharp trends 30% of the time. The other 70% they aren't....naturally. It is during those times that you would get the stereotyped crossover, and then the market is going against you. Vendors use MA crossovers, because they do not know how to trade, and they look good on paper.

You asked another valid question in what traders can't follow their rules and methods. This is why trading is harder than even what I make it sound. (I hope the newbies are reading this.) Developing a methodology is the easy part. Proper money management is harder, because of the very issues this whole thread was started on. Harder yet is the intangible part of trading, and that is the mind or mental discipline to stick to that methodology. This is why I said in my other post to first make $5 per day, develop confidence, and then make the bigger money. This is a gradual, building process. When you build a firm foundation for your trading, fear and greed are not nearly as big of an issue.
The mental part of trading is a daily process. I am not immuned, and no other trader in the industry is.

The point you made about daytrading is indicative of the fact that daytrading may not be for you on a personal level. Others like making those quick decisions and are good at it. I have a friend who is an institutional trader. He makes 20 trades per day, and 17 are good, as an overall average. Convince him that daytrading is not good. This is why trading is personal. We trade what is best for us, personally. What we trade and how we trade is not important, as long as we win consistently.

Nifty down 50 points in 10 minutes? Yep, I've seen it! Were you on the right side of that trade? If you weren't, was your stop in place? It is wasn't, do you have very conservative lot sizes? If the trader's pot was wiped out, it is his fault. Blunt, but true. There are principles you have to abide by.

If the market keeps you guessing, then take a look at your methodology. If it is a proven winner, then why be guessing? Enter the trade, set your stop and TP, and walk away. If you are still losing consistently ,then take a look at parts of your methodology and see what is wrong with it. After all, if your stop and TP are in place, and then you let it do its thing, and it is still losing, then it has to be back to square one for you.

If there is a war between you and your emotions, then step back from your live trading, take another look, identify the problem, and then push ahead. You mindset needs to be the same as when you enter the trade and exit the trade. It needs to be the same as when you post a losing trade as a winning trade. It is all part of the business. On a personal level, I knew I made advances in my trading when my wife could no longer tell what kind of a day, week, or month I had by my outward demeanor. I made over 600 pips last week. This week I haven't even made 100 pips. Emotionally, there is no difference.

Dear 4xPipCounter,

Establish a methodology and anything is possible - I disagree.
If you trade higher time frames and don't stare the monitor second by second.

Is there any methodology which is fool proof especially in day trading ?
Ok - assuming no method is fool proof and I use a simple MA cross over.Methodology is over.

Why are traders are not able to follow their rules and method ?

Day trading requires quick decision making.
It requires monitoring the prices each second isn't it ?
Few seconds in blue and few seconds in red.
Nifty down 50 points in matter of 10 minutes.Profits are wiped in just 5 to 10 minutes rapidly.
Market keeps you guessing each second.
Each second is a war between you and your emotions.

How are you managing this ?

TIA.

Dear Pride,

Your recent words that you don't day trade and moved to swing trading shocked my confidence.
Please come in support of the argument that method alone is not every thing.

TIA.

 

[4xpipcounter]

Smartrade, let me put a plug in for this comment. You nailed it!

Anyone trading 10 Lots of Nifty futures with a trading capital of Rs 1 Lac is sure to blow up his trading account. A 7 point loss on this position when you add brokerage, STT and slippage, it will knock off 5 % of your account and if you have 2-3 losses consecutively then the 15 % of your account is down in a single day......very high leverage even for a day trader......

7 point profit.....great idea...but what happens to losses ?? suppose you hit a first trade of the day as a looser, then you need 10 +7 =17 points on your next trade.....suppose next trade makes 7 points profits...will you book it or wait for 17 points profits ? If you dont book, and the trade goes say 9 points in profit and starts going in reverse direction....then what do you do ?? If you book, you are still in a loss considering brokerage,STT,taxes etc....If you book 7 points and the trade goes to make 70 points....how will you feel as you are still sitting with a loss.....?

The assumption here is we make a single trade in a day ....all trades are profitable and so it appears simple....but in practice things are not that simple....you will soon discover that. Can it be done with certainty ? The answer is NO.....

Instead if you ask can 35-50 points ( 7 X 5 trading days ) be made in a week day trading nifty ? The answer is definate YES.....and if you start thinking on these lines, you will succeed as a day trader.And remove that 10 lots idea from your mind....your position should not be such that you are risking more than 1 to 1.5 % of your trading capital on a single trade...this is necessary if you want to survive in this game for long.

The above are my personal views based on my experience as a day and swing trader ......there will be many trading wizards who claim to be making 200 % return per month on their capital of Rs 25,000 and I wish them good luck and I hope to see them trading after one year in the market......

Best wishes for your success.....

Smart_trade

 

[new-to-markets]

Goodones :thumb:

This is a gradual, building process. When you build a firm foundation for your trading, fear and greed are not nearly as big of an issue.

The mental part of trading is a daily process. I am not immuned, and no other trader in the industry is.

Trading is personal. We trade what is best for us, personally. What we trade and how we trade is not important, as long as we win consistently.

Blunt, but true. There are principles you have to abide by.

After all, if your stop and TP are in place, and then you let it do its thing, and it is still losing, then it has to be back to square one for you.

On a personal level, I knew I made advances in my trading when my wife could no longer tell what kind of a day, week, or month I had by my outward demeanor.

 

[columbus]

To achieve a bigger goal ,do not change your primary target of 10 points
per trade ,but change the frequecy of trades.(Like,5 trades per day instead
of 4 trades per day).