do traders subconsciously really want to lose?

onlinegtrash

Well-Known Member
#1
do traders subconsciously really want to lose?

Although it may sound absurd... who wants to lose money in market...
but at EOD usually most traders end up giving money to market.

These donations can be justified for ignorance until they learn the basics of risk management/position management etc.

But the problem is despite *knowing* all the rules... some traders still lose in market...

what's going on here?

Do traders come in with some kind of death wish... which they don't even know themselves?
Is there some dark force below traders conscious mind... trying to express itself with false reason of 'lets trade to make money', while deeply inside the minds of traders heart he actually wanted to lose?
 

jahan

Well-Known Member
#2
Hello,

my thoughts ......

Professionals traders do their trading to win.
Amateurs trade for not to loose.....this feeling of not to loose make them to loose ultimately.....they take small profits with the fear of giving back... and take large losses with the hope of recovering back....

amateurs who have done some research believe in Efficient Market Hypothesis....which(EMH) i beleive is totally wrong for traders...

Regards,
 

toocool

Well-Known Member
#3
@onlinegtrash

Absolutely true

There is a part of the brain we don't understand at all.

Subconscious mind is the most powerful entity in our brains.

Try to read something on hypnotism, in that state only we talk about our real subconscious thoughts if stimulated properly by the hypnotist
 

Brill

Well-Known Member
#4
Hello,

my thoughts ......

Professionals traders do their trading to win.
Amateurs trade for not to loose.....this feeling of not to loose make them to loose ultimately.....they take small profits with the fear of giving back... and take large losses with the hope of recovering back....

amateurs who have done some research believe in Efficient Market Hypothesis....which(EMH) i beleive is totally wrong for traders...

Regards,
@onlinegtrash

Absolutely true

There is a part of the brain we don't understand at all.

Subconscious mind is the most powerful entity in our brains.

Try to read something on hypnotism, in that state only we talk about our real subconscious thoughts if stimulated properly by the hypnotist
Agree 100% to both of you.

Even when i know anything can happen in market, my subconscious mind prevent me from putting stop loss. and when i do not put SL, the market invariably moves against me. and i incur big losses, which wipe out my many small gains....
 

stock72

Well-Known Member
#5
My personal experience says yes I always felt like I want to loose from day one to several years until I taste the gain and profit last aug/ sep 2013... unfortunately I lost again from Jan'14 to till date and now desperately want to taste the profit like drug addicts .. will achieve i guess ...
 

Galts Gulch

Well-Known Member
#6
Making Winning ..... a Habit

I have reference many times my travails early on in my trading career whereby fear caused me to expect a loss – completely manifested as the result of my bad habits. How was I eventually able to overcome and change?
Think about some of your own bad habits – especially the behaviors that create the internal dialogue “I know better” or “I’ll never do that again!” The problem is that most of the time your internal dialogue is not supportive of your desired outcome. In order to change those bad habits and behaviors, you must commit to change them.
Commitment – that is the key word. Most traders think they are committed. They spend hours studying charts, asking every question under the sun, and trying to nail down some form of certainty to overcome their fears. However, they are always looking for some external resource to solve their problems.
The commitment that is most vital is the commitment to look inward; to explore the psychology of why you are fearful, why you repeat the same mistakes while knowing they are sabotaging your success.
We know that we must build a belief in our trading plan and trading system. With that we must also build trust in ourselves. That trust comes from having realistic expectations, understanding time is required to become an expert, and working smart.
Happily, I get many emails from traders telling me they are now starting to get it. They are beginning to see the light – working through their psychological challenges. The single greatest revelation is that they all have calmed down and redirected their focus on the process. This is the beginning of positive change. The process as outlined through complete Trade Plan Development is the road map to success. In short, process will lead to profits.
The other great discovery is that they now know they can not trade $500.00 into $1 million. They are no longer counting on pipe dreams and wishes. They are treating their trading as a business, allocating appropriate capital and applying sound principles to their money management. They are developing the patience to seek and execute the best trade signals; following their trade plan and rules.
These are the signs of true commitment; of professionals – and real professionals make money. These milestones build confidence and self-trust.
Now, what once seemed impossible becomes a good habit – a winning habit. The defining moment is when you realize that winning is really not difficult at all. In fact, you will expect it!
So many traders are mystified and curious – somehow still assuming that I am afraid or reluctant to post losing trades. But at this stage of my trading, I just don’t have that many. I have tried to illustrate how winning is possible using thorough preparation; Top Down Analysis, market structure, valid signal choices, patience, discipline and not over trading – all learnable skills! But all skills that required a true commitment on my part!
Remember in My Story that I emphasized that I had to work on me. That’s when things began to change for the better.
My habits changed, from fearful to controlled. I stopped acting like a loser and began acting like a winner- a professional. From there, it became more fluid and simple.
Winning became a habit.
If you don’t have the fortitude or the heart to make the commitment, you are going to struggle. If you do, you will struggle at the outset, but will eventually be successful.
The fact is that most people simply do not want to expend the effort or energy to do what it takes – at anything. That’s really great for those of us who do.
Remember to make an honest assessment of what you are doing and why. Make the commitment to change and follow the process. You will soon find winning the norm, not the exception.
“Long-lasting change that will help you create new habits and actions requires an inside-out approach, as well as two very important tools: the mirror and time.” Darren L. Johnson
 

toocool

Well-Known Member
#7
@Galts Gulch

You made my day by posting this :)

However I am not aware of this trader who wrote the lines, who is this man? please suggest me something from him, book, video, audio, anything great
 

onlinegtrash

Well-Known Member
#9
Making Winning ..... a Habit
...
“Long-lasting change that will help you create new habits and actions requires an inside-out approach, as well as two very important tools: the mirror and time.” Darren L. Johnson
This post gave me a fresh view on winning! I used to see winning as a nice outcome.

Seeing winning as a habit implies an interesting conclusion: it's not hard to succeed, it's hard to lose, provided one has cultivated winning habits and sees winning as a habit (i.e mundane repeatable thing based on sound principles and it has become part of person's personality)!

Thanks for your input!

I also believe teaching trading to any one interested with patience + devotion + brains is impossible despite the popular opinion of 'trading is teachable'. The losing is NOT intentional or not willing to make enough effort towards forming winning habits, its simply because of their mental hardware capacity. The traders who make it after struggling doesn't prove 'trading is teachable' they simply prove that they had the mental hardware potential and they just needed few tweaks in their attitudes, beliefs, conceptual frame work and some training. Just like any profession there is a pyramid even in winning traders, most winning traders operate in higher time frame and when the time frame shrinks, the number of winners in the slot also shrinks.

What is the boundary line below which the trader becomes hopeless loser?
I don't know exactly but that line lies some where between a chimpanzee and a winning trader.

How can we know, if we have gone below that line or still above the line and worth striving?
I guess, only the trader can answer this question once he has basic conceptual grasp of the market and its working!
 
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Galts Gulch

Well-Known Member
#10
The Problem, as I see is, we tend to feel that "WIN" is outside ... Actually it is not ...
It is inside .... it is "I" ... I'm The Winner ....

That is the reason, I strongly Believe that Trading is more about the Psyche of the Trader ... FA, TA, TF, Analysis are all inside this "I" ...

Otherwise, how can you interpret ... Two people looking at same charts ... from same school of thought ... But still 1 sells and the other buys ...

It is The Interpretation ... and who Interprets .... "I" and ONLY "I" ...