Traderji.com


What really works in professional commodity trading? My Trading Strategies

Discuss What really works in professional commodity trading? My Trading Strategies at the Commodities within the Traderji.com; I don't understand your style at all. In the first post, you said your main ...


Go Back   Traderji.com > THE MARKETS > Commodities


Commodities General commodities talk, news, views, trends and analysis.


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 23rd July 2016, 12:06 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 653
Thanks: 477
Thanked 1,128 Times in 424 Posts
deba72 has much to be proud ofdeba72 has much to be proud ofdeba72 has much to be proud ofdeba72 has much to be proud ofdeba72 has much to be proud ofdeba72 has much to be proud ofdeba72 has much to be proud ofdeba72 has much to be proud ofdeba72 has much to be proud of
Default Re: What really works in professional commodity trading? My Trading Strategies

I don't understand your style at all. In the first post, you said your main focus is on money management and then you are arguing in favour of averaging a losing trade which in effect is throwing good money to a trade which has already gone bad. How do you integrate these two contradictory statements ?

Traders use SL not because they are afraid but because it's a very important part of risk and money management. How do you do risk management when you don't use SL ..kindly explain...
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to deba72 For This Useful Post:
boarders (23rd July 2016), Kabali (24th July 2016), nac (18th August 2016), vijkris (25th July 2016)

Looking for a share broker?

Name:Phone:
Email:City:
State:
Are you a day trader?
  #12  
Old 23rd July 2016, 12:12 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Kodaikonal
Posts: 1,692
Thanks: 1,327
Thanked 2,159 Times in 841 Posts
Rish has a reputation beyond reputeRish has a reputation beyond reputeRish has a reputation beyond reputeRish has a reputation beyond reputeRish has a reputation beyond reputeRish has a reputation beyond reputeRish has a reputation beyond reputeRish has a reputation beyond reputeRish has a reputation beyond reputeRish has a reputation beyond reputeRish has a reputation beyond reputeRish has a reputation beyond reputeRish has a reputation beyond reputeRish has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: What really works in professional commodity trading? My Trading Strategies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabali View Post
Priority No. 1 - Money

We all know well that there are somany tools for the trading. But which one is the first priority for me?

1. Fundamental Analysis - No
2. Technical Analysis - No
3. Watching Foregin Market - No
4. Price Action Trading - No
5. Amibroker, Meta Trader, Automated Trading Etc - No

The above list goes without any limit..............

Professional Traders go to market for earning money. But Scalpers, Intraday Traders and others are gambling the market by the above tools. Some tools work for sometime but not always...

So, I am very cautious about money. My first priority is Money management. But you may ask, Is merely money management enough? I am not saying like that.


Money should be given the first priority. I have more valid reasons how professional traders are safe in all types of market by their money management plan.

Here, i will explain the money management plan for 1 Lakh rupees. Let me write my long experiences one by one.

With the averaging concept....how you would have managed Crude Oil with this 1 lakh Rupees account ...say started bought from 90 dollar to till 27 dollar...

Just I wants to understand the Rs.1 lakh money management..please...
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Rish For This Useful Post:
boarders (23rd July 2016), Kabali (24th July 2016), monkeybusiness (23rd July 2016), nac (18th August 2016), vijkris (25th July 2016)
  #13  
Old 23rd July 2016, 12:45 PM
monkeybusiness's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 714
Thanks: 7,604
Thanked 1,441 Times in 559 Posts
monkeybusiness has much to be proud ofmonkeybusiness has much to be proud ofmonkeybusiness has much to be proud ofmonkeybusiness has much to be proud ofmonkeybusiness has much to be proud ofmonkeybusiness has much to be proud ofmonkeybusiness has much to be proud ofmonkeybusiness has much to be proud ofmonkeybusiness has much to be proud ofmonkeybusiness has much to be proud of
Default Re: What really works in professional commodity trading? My Trading Strategies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rish View Post
With the averaging concept....how you would have managed Crude Oil with this 1 lakh Rupees account ...say started bought from 90 dollar to till 27 dollar...

Just I wants to understand the Rs.1 lakh money management..please...
Me too.....
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to monkeybusiness For This Useful Post:
Kabali (24th July 2016), Rish (23rd July 2016), vijkris (25th July 2016)
  #14  
Old 23rd July 2016, 06:53 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,963
Thanks: 6,621
Thanked 3,298 Times in 1,222 Posts
boarders has a reputation beyond repute
boarders has a reputation beyond reputeboarders has a reputation beyond reputeboarders has a reputation beyond reputeboarders has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: What really works in professional commodity trading? My Trading Strategies

i think he is explaining his strategy using a example figure of 1 lakh and may not be his real capital.

another thing is he may be trading in only non perishable goods.

I know some guys in commodity trading who does averaging, but then only upto a given limit after which they book loss if the trade doesnt work out and not go all the way from 150 $ to 25 $ linke in the case of crude oil.

the above doesnt mean I agree or vouch for kabali's methods. I myself am purely a technical trader and cant imagine to trade without stop loss that too I use tighyt stops.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to boarders For This Useful Post:
deba72 (23rd July 2016), Kabali (24th July 2016), Rish (23rd July 2016), vijkris (25th July 2016)
  #15  
Old 23rd July 2016, 08:37 PM
DSM's Avatar
DSM DSM is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,324
Thanks: 8,267
Thanked 12,791 Times in 3,443 Posts
DSM has a reputation beyond reputeDSM has a reputation beyond reputeDSM has a reputation beyond reputeDSM has a reputation beyond repute
DSM has a reputation beyond reputeDSM has a reputation beyond reputeDSM has a reputation beyond reputeDSM has a reputation beyond reputeDSM has a reputation beyond reputeDSM has a reputation beyond reputeDSM has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: What really works in professional commodity trading? My Trading Strategies

1. Trader With Stop Loss ( I never put stop loss) - Can you believe it?

Possible - to not put a Stop Loss (in the system) to avoid 'Stop Loss Runs...'

2. Dont average the losing position - But i average it. Can you believe it?

Again, Possible as long as one is adding to the position within the trend or at acceptable levels of retracement. '

3. Trade with trend ... But I dont see the trend - Can you believe it?

Sure... You have your own system which works, or has worked for you till now... It will not help me to prejudge you till I have read all you have to say....

Then, what is working in market? How to make the profit? Ya, I got the solution first. Later, I planned my trading.

Interesting... Looking forward to know.

In offline physical trading, If you bought the product for 100, Will you sell it for 95? will you sell in Loss?

Yes, depending on the way I see the trend....

The basic reason is money. Somone starts with 10000, 50000, 75000, 1 Lakh. One time investment only. Most of the indian traders are not able to invest money continously. So they trade with stop loss and fear. I say, It does not matter. You choose the product depending on the money in your account.

As a common example for commodity traders, Crude cracked from US$120 to about US$27 odd.... How would you manage this position?


Simply said, I am maintaining Professionalism in Trading by comparing every trade like physical commodity business. That is why i am able to exist in this market for the long periods.

Not taking a loss is being stubborn, not being professional... But do explain your view point for understanding....

Somebody may not agree with above points, Everyone has different trading plan. But, I share here what works in this market for me.

Yep, the point of not taking a loss is unheard of among future traders... But do share your story - seems different and interesting.
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to DSM For This Useful Post:
boarders (24th July 2016), deba72 (23rd July 2016), deoria (25th July 2016), Kabali (24th July 2016), nac (18th August 2016), vijkris (25th July 2016)
Advertisements
  #16  
Old 24th July 2016, 08:30 AM
Kabali's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Tamilnadu
Posts: 5
Thanks: 16
Thanked 49 Times in 4 Posts
Kabali will become famous soon enough
Thumbs up Re: What really works in professional commodity trading? My Trading Strategies

First of all, My sincere thanks to all.

All the questions asked by you are reasonable. I have the duty to answer to all. But I have very less time only. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Way to go more in this thread.

Most of the traders dont prefer hedging concept. Because they will confuse theirselves when to remove the hedging and which is the correct time to come out of hedging. Let me share about hedging in details later. Averaging the losing position differs from averaging the hedging. I will tell you how your account will go up and down at the time of averaging the losing position and averaging the hedging position.

Someone asked crude oil money management for 1 Lakh. Sorry, 1 Lakh not enough for crude oil. Crude oil mini is only preferable for them.

Averaging the losing position and trying to catch the lowest price is like catching the falling knife. I also know well. I will explain about "% Analysis of price rise and price fall" in details later about when to average.

Dear traders, You are reading this thread by using your time. Thanks a lot for spending your time here.

My main focus on every trade is exit strategy if profit comes, and entry strategy if loss comes. it will be planned before entering every trade. Everything is to plan with money, Price and position (long or short).

I never said that i always take long position only like physical market. I apply the concept of physical market at the time of buying and averaging. I apply my hedging concepts with % analysis (I give my own name here) at the time of averaging the losing position.

Will catch you soon with my next post "Priority No. 3 "Effective Hedging and Its Possibility to come out of trade with profits"
Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Kabali For This Useful Post:
boarders (24th July 2016), dreammerchant (11th August 2016), DSM (24th July 2016), Happy_Singh (25th July 2016), LIVE COOL (18th August 2016), nac (18th August 2016), niftytaurus (24th July 2016), vijkris (25th July 2016)
  #17  
Old 24th July 2016, 12:35 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 29
Thanks: 2
Thanked 21 Times in 11 Posts
anal_ is on a distinguished road
Default Re: What really works in professional commodity trading? My Trading Strategies

Things are getting confused between averaging loss and scaling in. If the price moves in the opposite direction post entry, and you decide to add to your position since the initial bias still holds, then that's scaling in. Professional trading is done that way, coz there is no 1 price level to enter and exit. You gotta dance with the markets.

If your bias is reverted but you still married to your position and keep adding, that's called averaging loss. This is how most retail participants trade.

Now the stop loss. If you're scaling in, you can't keep fixed stops near your entry. There are 2 risks you deal while trading, chronic and acute (just like the medical ones). Chronic is the risk of losing to make profit in the trade (opportunity cost), acute is the risk of losing capital for next trades. Chronic risk is taken care of while you scale up and down while riding on the initial bias. Since you trade on likelihood, scaling up should happen as the probability rises and vice versa when the probability goes down. For acute risk, that can cause a wipe out, what we call black swan, there should be a large stop that won't be taken by price action swings.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to anal_ For This Useful Post:
20.sum1 (28th July 2016), boarders (24th July 2016), DSM (24th July 2016), nac (18th August 2016)
  #18  
Old 24th July 2016, 07:39 PM
DSM's Avatar
DSM DSM is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,324
Thanks: 8,267
Thanked 12,791 Times in 3,443 Posts
DSM has a reputation beyond reputeDSM has a reputation beyond reputeDSM has a reputation beyond reputeDSM has a reputation beyond repute
DSM has a reputation beyond reputeDSM has a reputation beyond reputeDSM has a reputation beyond reputeDSM has a reputation beyond reputeDSM has a reputation beyond reputeDSM has a reputation beyond reputeDSM has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: What really works in professional commodity trading? My Trading Strategies

Thanks Kabali/Anal for your post and comments....

To all those following the thread, there are important points made on both sides of the arguments. May I request, that while discussing ideas or opposing points of view, we avoid being personal and instead be objective with our comments? This will help us to get some insights to different ideas, and even be respectful in our communications though we may have differences of opinions....

Thanks all....
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to DSM For This Useful Post:
marimuthu13 (25th July 2016), nac (18th August 2016), sherbaaz (24th July 2016), suri112000 (24th July 2016)
  #19  
Old 24th July 2016, 07:51 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 653
Thanks: 477
Thanked 1,128 Times in 424 Posts
deba72 has much to be proud ofdeba72 has much to be proud ofdeba72 has much to be proud ofdeba72 has much to be proud ofdeba72 has much to be proud ofdeba72 has much to be proud ofdeba72 has much to be proud ofdeba72 has much to be proud ofdeba72 has much to be proud of
Default Re: What really works in professional commodity trading? My Trading Strategies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabali View Post
First of all, My sincere thanks to all.



Someone asked crude oil money management for 1 Lakh. Sorry, 1 Lakh not enough for crude oil. Crude oil mini is only preferable for them.
Please throw some more light on the above remarks made by you. Currently one lot crude margin is around 27k. Do you mean to say 100k is not sufficient to trade an instrument whose margin is 27k ? If I understood correctly , you are looking to allow a MTM of 73k on an initial position of 27k and still keep on averaging a position which has moved 730 points against you. What sort of trading plan is this ? Please clarify my doubts.

Last edited by deba72; 24th July 2016 at 08:13 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to deba72 For This Useful Post:
nac (18th August 2016), vijkris (25th July 2016)
  #20  
Old 25th July 2016, 08:21 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: coimbatore
Posts: 322
Thanks: 164
Thanked 532 Times in 214 Posts
vijayanscbe is a glorious beacon of lightvijayanscbe is a glorious beacon of lightvijayanscbe is a glorious beacon of lightvijayanscbe is a glorious beacon of lightvijayanscbe is a glorious beacon of lightvijayanscbe is a glorious beacon of light
Default Re: What really works in professional commodity trading? My Trading Strategies

Quote:
Generally, There are some technical rumours around the market friends.

The rumours are :

1. Trader With Stop Loss ( I never put stop loss) - Can you believe it?
2. Dont average the losing position - But i average it. Can you believe it?
3. Trade with trend ... But I dont see the trend - Can you believe it?
They are not rumors, they are really followed by many traders.

Quote:
Generally, There are some technical rumours around the market friends.

The rumours are :

1. Trader With Stop Loss ( I never put stop loss) - Can you believe it?
2. Dont average the losing position - But i average it. Can you believe it?
3. Trade with trend ... But I don't see the trend -Can you believe it?
I believe you. I have done these things.
I suspect the 100%, but definitely 99.9999.....% traders do these things initially, up-to blowing few accounts.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to vijayanscbe For This Useful Post:
boarders (26th July 2016), seetharamank (31st July 2016), vijkris (25th July 2016)
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
copper, crude, gold, nickel, silver


Advertise Here

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads for: What really works in professional commodity trading? My Trading Strategies
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Systematic Trading works lonstud Algo & Automated Trading 30 19th June 2016 01:09 PM
Types of Commodity Trading Strategies kumarp_1661 Commodities 7 14th February 2013 01:44 PM
Very basics about how share market and trading works mathivanansub Beginners Guide 4 23rd July 2012 12:06 PM
Trading Strategies in commodity market, base metals and precious metals LAKSHMIGANDAN Introductions 0 23rd April 2012 10:59 PM
Trading strategies - How many are they? How they works? Ravi Lodhiya Day Trading 5 27th January 2012 09:17 PM


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 05:38 AM.

Indemnity, Disclaimer & Disclosure Notice:
* By visiting Traderji.com you automatically indicate that you agree to our Forum Rules, Indemnity, Disclaimer & Disclosure Notice and General Content Disclaimer Notice and indemnify Traderji.com, its associates and related parties of all claims howsoever resulting from the usage of the forum/site.
* Disclaimer: Trading or investing in stocks & commodities is a high risk activity. Any action you choose to take in the markets is totally your own responsibility. You are recommended to make appropriate enquiries and seek appropriate advise before sending money, incurring any expenses, acting on recommendations or entering into any commitment in relation to any advertisement published here. Traderji.com does not vouch for any claims made by the advertisers of products and services. Traderji.com will not be held liable for any consequences in the event such claims are not honoured by the advertisers. Traderji.com will not be liable for any, direct or indirect, consequential or incidental damages or loss arising out of the use of any information by anybody mentioned anywhere on this site.
* Disclosure: The information in this forum is neither an offer to sell nor solicitation to buy any of the securities mentioned herein. The writers may or may not be trading in the securities mentioned.
* All names or products mentioned are trademarks or registered trademarks of their respective owners.
General Content Disclaimer Notice:
In light of our policy of encouraging candid, open exchanges of views and the rapid distribution of information originating from many sources, Traderji.com cannot determine the accuracy or legality of any information that may be uploaded to the forum. Opinions, advice and all other information expressed by participants in discussions are those of the author. You rely on such information at your own risk. You are urged to seek professional advice for specific, individual situations and not rely solely on advice or opinions given in the discussions. Since Traderji.com is an open and free discussion forum, any comments made by members of this forum in their posts reflect their own views and not of the owner or administrator of Traderji.com. Thus the owner/administrator indemnify themselves of all claims whatsoever and will not be liable or responsible for any members comments/views in this forum Traderji.com. Although we constantly delete all irrelevant content and/or SPAM, if you should find any objectionable or offensive posts made by members of this forum which you would like to bring to our notice for removal then please Contact Us.
 


Our Partner Websites: www.chittorgarh.com, IPO Investment Portal | www.topsharebrokers.com, Broker Comparision
Copyright © www.Traderji.com 2001 - , All rights reserved.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271