already lost 90%!

kkseal · #**141** 6th February 2007, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oxusmorouz

Not sure what you meant by that exactly nor am I sure whom you are trying to point at, but I do feel the importance of discontinuing this thread before it gives a negetive breakout...

Never mind Oxy - it's just an observation.

You're right - I too am not too fond of negative brkouts I'm a 'bull' by nature and would rather see the break of a resistance than support. So no more posts from me here. This thread is closed as far as i'm concerned.

Regards,
Kalyan.

zse9 · #**142** 6th February 2007, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CreditViolet

There is a liquidity and edge issue here if you realize, but you have made abundantly clear that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Dear CreditViolet:

Please don't take my statements personally. I am/was merely pointing out the obvious fallacy of your statements for people who may tend to take your statement at face value (I am sure that a title of Senior Member carries a little weight in this forum and people may tend to think that less than 100% is really a waste of time).

1. Either you are doing compounding and are a trillionaire or
2. you are a trader making 100% of the trading capital per month.

You have stated now that you fall in the second category. As I pointed out, if you are making 10,000 from a trading capital of 10,000 using a lot of margin and leverage and what not, surely it is possible to make 100% every month.

But if you are making a living out of it using a larger trading capital (say trading capital of 1,000,000 and making 1,000,000) consistently every month I will be very impressed (and will be very keen to learn some tips from you.). So the challenge lies not in making 100% returns out of a trading capital of 1000 or 10000 but making a living out of it and consistently make a 100% return every month from a trading capital of 100,000 or 1,000,000.

So rather than liquidity and edge it comes down to money management. Will you risk 1,000,000 on a trade just like you risk 1000 or 10,000 on a trade?

beginner_av · #**143** 6th February 2007, 03:48 PM

i always thought that returns were calculated on a compounding basis....alice land or otherwise....cv can u please tell me why u dont take compounding into account in calculating? any particular reason? is it because tomorrow a loss will also be compounded?

CreditViolet · #**144** 6th February 2007, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agilent

CV
With due respect, either your English is deficient or yr maths .
Or ... neither of the above, but you are a seasoned diplomat skilled in obfuscation.

I mean ... lets see you counter what ZSE is saying (mainly that your proclaimed returns of >100 % per mth may have come about just a few mths in the past 3 yrs ... and ... lets be honest , there wd have been several mths when u may have even lost !)

So why don't you come out clean and tell all of us (iincluding Shobhendra) that what you really meant was 'occasional' returns of 100 % per mth, and that over a long period yr returns have been (so much only ... 40% ? 75%? 95% ?) on an annual basis .. even at these levels, believe me, you wd have outperformed most traders in India

If you find it difficult to say it here in public, just go look at yr self in the mirror and ask yrself what is the truth. It may hurt a bit, but never mind ... for the sake of truth

AGILENT

There you go again. Why dont you clean up on your previous posts before joining comrade Kalyan on the high school debate team.

Please dont waste my time with your nonsense again.

With hope
CV

CreditViolet · #**145** 6th February 2007, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agilent

No one is fighting .. some of us are only trying to unravel the truth ... so that the scores (hundreds ? of the 10 K members here) of relatively inexperienced members on this forum do not get 'taken in' by lofty claims of some few who are relatively more successful, or those who play on semantics and misleading statistics

Do u get me ?

AGILENT

Please go to this thread and continue your debating and TELL everyone how it is impossible because you had no idea how to do it.

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showth...threadid=50472

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showth...threadid=61514

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showth...threadid=83837

Wishing you best of luck
CV

CreditViolet · #**146** 6th February 2007, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swagat86

Frnds, lemme say this. Intrday trading has its own Pros and Cons. When u look into compunding considering 1% a day(which is just from Rs 100 to 101) and 250 trading days a yr u can go places. Now the thing is u hav to trade very very liquid markets if ur trading Big. if ur trying to buy 50 lots of Nifty Futs u may get it pretty easily as agaisnt an Escort or Bharat Forge.

Wat im trying to point out is. Most investors get happy with 15% or more returns. But the fact is that, for a person trading for a Living 15% is too less. Unless off corse u hav a huge capital base.

Its simple Zes, Agilent. its simple compounding we all know about. 1% a
day-simple. So 100% is not impossible. We consider Trading as a Business ryt. For a businessman maximisation of Profit is the main thing. Nothing else matters. Im sure CV as an experinced guy has mastered the art. So we all are bewildered by his "100% a month". So y not learn from him instead of trying to argue with him for his statements.

If Rakesh Jhunjhunwala can take Rs 5000 to 750 CR. Y not others. But the problem is here. Everybody cannot be Mr Jhunjhunwala.

Lastly, i must say this. Everybody doesnt hav the aptitude for a business. i mean any kind of business. Thats y for every success there are hundreds of failures.

Thanks

Very well said Swagat, hopefully the debate team gets your point.

CreditViolet · #**147** 6th February 2007, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkseal

For me the take is that there are two kinds of bluffers (or Pretenders, if you like) - the crass & the sophisticated. The latter is more difficult to see through - but they do leave their imprints.

Regards,
Kalyan.

I know what you are trying to do here but here is the deal, just spend your sarcasm on someone who remotely cares about what you say or think. Last time I checked you were still Experimenting with TA and suddenly you are an expert on how the whole business works.

Best Regards
CV

CreditViolet · #**148** 6th February 2007, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zse9

Dear CreditViolet:

Please don't take my statements personally. I am/was merely pointing out the obvious fallacy of your statements for people who may tend to take your statement at face value (I am sure that a title of Senior Member carries a little weight in this forum and people may tend to think that less than 100% is really a waste of time).

1. Either you are doing compounding and are a trillionaire or
2. you are a trader making 100% of the trading capital per month.

You have stated now that you fall in the second category. As I pointed out, if you are making 10,000 from a trading capital of 10,000 using a lot of margin and leverage and what not, surely it is possible to make 100% every month.

But if you are making a living out of it using a larger trading capital (say trading capital of 1,000,000 and making 1,000,000) consistently every month I will be very impressed (and will be very keen to learn some tips from you.). So the challenge lies not in making 100% returns out of a trading capital of 1000 or 10000 but making a living out of it and consistently make a 100% return every month from a trading capital of 100,000 or 1,000,000.

So rather than liquidity and edge it comes down to money management. Will you risk 1,000,000 on a trade just like you risk 1000 or 10,000 on a trade?

Hi zs9
Nothing personal about it, its just business as Don Corleone would say

The argument of compounding doesnt work as Swagat pointed out because of the liquidity issue. If you are a scalper or daytrader you can trade on margin for just so much. I have tried to make that point earlier too.

Attaching a brokerage statement of a guy who made 40000$ on a 100,000$ a/c trading Crude Oil. Now are you going to give him the same argument that it is impossible and that if he only could trade with 100,0000 and make 400000 a day he would own the world. I hope this clears up the issue.

Look this isnt mutual fund investment, a nimble trader and experienced ( which everyone overlooked ) can capitalize on obvious opportunities in the market with margin and make a bundle.The key factor is Margin to Equity ratio and not Percentage returns, this is not 'investment' but trading.

Regards
CV

CreditViolet · #**149** 6th February 2007, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beginner_av

i always thought that returns were calculated on a compounding basis....alice land or otherwise....cv can u please tell me why u dont take compounding into account in calculating? any particular reason? is it because tomorrow a loss will also be compounded?

hi b_av
Just talked about it in the previous post. After growing your a/c to a certain point, the law of diminishing returns kick in. You simply cant move in and out of markets easily as a short term trader.Either you have to diversify into different assets or into longer time frames and methods.

Hope that clears it up

Rgds
CV

Niranjanam · #**150** 6th February 2007, 08:11 PM

A Story On Compounding

Once upon a time a wise Brahmin invented a wonderful game called Chaturanga. One day the King summoned him and requested of the wise man to create a game which would require pure mental skill and oppose the teaching of games in which chance (luck) decides the outcome by the throw of dice. Moreover, the king requested that this new game should also have the ability to enhance the mental qualities of prudence, foresight, valor, judgment, endurance, circumspection, and analytical and reasoning ability.

The Brahmin produced Chaturanga. One of the popular myths of chess tells of him being asked by his king what reward he wanted for such a fine game. He replied that he wanted one grain of wheat for the first square of the board, two for the second, four for the third, eight for the fourth, and so on to the 64th square. The king was astonished and annoyed by the excessive modesty of his counsellor, but it turned out that the number of grains he owed him was 18,445,744,073,709,551,515(That's about 18 billion billion). That is more than the current production of the entire world for hundreds of years!

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