Teach A Man To Fish And.........

abhijit sen · #**811** 17th August 2007, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint

Yes,my friend....important to have a strategy and the persistence to stick to it.An exact point where you know for sure that this trade is not going the way you want it to,and to get out.A strategy to catch the most of the trend as possible.The adamant persistence to stick to plan.

Abhijit,this was a trade on the short side some months ago,ACC,tracked it for 2 months and then it gave this trade.

Charts attached below.......ACC got that sharp cut from the highs in Dec 2006.Missed the move down and then the bear-flaggish move making higher pivot highs and lows,but no where near the all time lows.Then we got that lower pivot high,and then a break of prev pivot lows.

We enter the trade short,the initial stop as mentioned.Then that sideways move,still stop loss at the initial stop level.Then it breaks below the next pivot low.Move stop to Trail stop 1.Then we get the next bar down.Move stop to the high of 2 bars back,viz Trail stop 2.Then we have two up days,but not able to take out Trail stop 2........we are still in the trade.Then another bar down.Since we saw new lows,now move the stop to Trail Stop 3.Next bar down after that,still at Trail stop 3.Now we get another bar down.......move trail stop to the high of 2 bars ago viz Trail stop 4.Another bar down,we move to Trail stop 5.Next we get a big up day.Keep trail stops where they are viz at 5.Now we get another bar down,move trail stop to Trail stop 6......why?Another lower pivot high.

Next an up day,Trail stop 6 is yet to be taken out.Then another big bar down and another bar down......now we move to Trail stop 7.Why?Newer lows.Next another bar down,but not newer lows,so we keep the Trail stop 7.Then a gap down and a move up.....still newer lows,and therefore we move the Trail stop to the high of 2 bars back....viz Trail Stop 8.Then we go sideways.....no more new lows,we keep the Trail stops at Trail stop 8.Then ACC makes a gap down and new lows......move Trail stop to Trail stop 9.Next bar down sees newer lows,move Trail stop to Trail stop 10.......next bar a gap down,we move trail stop to 11.Next day ACC takes us out of the trade at 732.

In this case,we got most of the meat of the trend.....sometimes we get taken out capturing probably half or maybe a third....sometimes we get to our initial stop the moment we put in a trade.All part of the market........importantly,our job is to detect changes in trend and once in,hold on to it.

All the best!
Happy Trading!
Saint

ps:Shall post about the adds on another day,using the same example.....Yawn!

saint,
as always, very lucid. i guess everyone has his own style of trailing stops depending on their risk appetite. will have to figure out whats best for me. please do also write about how you add to positions.

the ACC example you gave has created a further doubt for me and it relates to the other question i asked.........the impact of the overall market trend.........IN THE ACC TRADE YOU TOOK, IF I AM NOT WRONG, YOU WENT SHORT ON 13 FEB 2007. ON 13TH FEB, THE WEEKLY NIFTY CHARTS WERE SHOWING HIGHER PIVOT HIGHS AND LOWS. SO I GUESS THE INTERMEDIATE TERM UPTREND WAS STILL INTACT. SIMILARLY ON THE DAILY CHARTS, HIGHER PIVOT HIGHS AND LOWS WERE BEING FORMED, AND IT WAS NOT UNTIL 23 FEB 2007 THAT THE PREVIOUS PIVOT LOW WAS BROKEN.

INSPITE OF THE MARKET BEING IN A INTERMEDIATE TERM AND NEAR TERM UPTREND, YOU WENT AHEAD AND SHORTED ACC. DO YOU LOOK AT THE OVERALL MARKET DIRECTION? IF SO, WHAT DO YOU LOOK FOR IN THE BROAD MARKET?

I KNOW, I MIGHT BE HORRIBLY WRONG. PLEASE FEEL FREE TO POINT OUT WHAT I AM MISSING.

THANKING YOU,
ABHIJIT SEN

Satyen · #**812** 21st August 2007, 10:51 PM

Hi
Saint thanks for your ACC example .........
if one wants to trade in daily chart
taking weekly as guidance .... then for buy set up
weekly has to up and we use pivots in daily to buy
but we should detect as soon as weekly turns into uptrend
so what are the criteria that confirms that we are going
to have weekly uptrend ......

some methods like WRB after consolidation or breakout from triangles etc
please tel us more methods to detect trend at its
initial stage

Regards
Satya

marcus · #**813** 22nd August 2007, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaileshdb

Dear Saint,
Kindly explain Fibonnaci Numbers and how we can use them in trading..may be day trading or position trading.

Thanks.

-Shail

Shailesh,

Babypips is great for fib retracements, in addition to this I suggest you read DeNapoli's book on fibs its the best written so far (mainly in context to forex but can be applied to stocks and futures as well) you'd be years ahead of the pack.

marcus · #**814** 22nd August 2007, 03:42 AM

Dear Saint,

I too have that question, is it necessary or rather do you normally have the overall market trend in the same direction as the positions you intend to take?

Saint · #**815** 27th August 2007, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcus

Dear Saint,

I too have that question, is it necessary or rather do you normally have the overall market trend in the same direction as the positions you intend to take?

Most of the time,Marcus.....

Saint

Saint · #**816** 27th August 2007, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lvgandhi

Very Nice example for newcomers.
I have two doubts.
Between March 12-19, there is apivot low and pivot high. Any reason for ignoring that for trailing stop?
In delivary trade, shorting is not allowed as per my knowledge. Is it futures market? If so can the delivary trade charts can be used for futures?

Was using that as an example,lvg........would be great if you could post a chart to make sure we are both seeing the same thing.

Saint

ps:Yes........meant shorting the ACC futs

Saint · #**817** 28th August 2007, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimpleStuff

Hello Saint

Chart of nifty, last 5 sessions on 5 minutes time frame. Your comments plz.

Warm Regards
Rakesh

Hi Rakesh,

Below some ideas from last 5 days..........more of a long till short,and then short till long strategy.

Saint

uasish · #**818** 28th August 2007, 06:25 AM

These charts show us how to keep trading a simple thing.Just few days ago ,Satya WRB
(Wide-Range-Bar) ,the simple rule,Saint taught me will remain etched in memory.
Saint plz explain it once again.
Just saw a post of Traderji,how to arrive at price Tgts,the simplest one line Rule,we try to
make these simple things complicated & give them Hi-Funda connotation only by doing these we get a sub-concious sense of protection while working in the Mkt.
Only a crystal clear concept can teach us so simply,Unfortunatelywhich we lack.

marcus · #**819** 29th August 2007, 01:11 AM

Dear Saint,

Could you tell us if u trade on both BSE & NSE and the series(group) of stocks u trade, or do u scan the entire gamut of stocks on the exchanges for certain criteria which you then add to your watch-list for possible trading?

Could you also tell us if you're entirely a day trader?

thanks

marcus

marcus · #**820** 29th August 2007, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimpleStuff

Hello Saint,
We will all eventually study those 1000 odd charts and imbibe the principles given in here by Saint, but shutting out that Noise, may still remain our Rubicon to be crossed.

Best Wishes
Rakesh

Dear Rakesh,

Which 1000 odd charts are you referring to?